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Some version of this has been posted a dozen times now. The dog barking and baby crying detection are advertised features of this product range which is used for SmartThings integration.

Swarms of RE-hopefuls are now using tools they don't understand to work on projects they don't understand. Anyone doing RE knows step 1 is read public documentation, FCC filing, patent applications, etc. That step would tell you what the device does out of the box, no RE required to find everything the OP has actually uncovered.

Instead they busted out Claude and have been gaslit by their own AI into thinking they've discovered something. They just discovered features that Samsung has been pitching for years.

I don't get why people think it would be worth all this effort for Samsung to nefariously work out not only if you have a dog and/or a baby, but exactly when they make noise. Like, sure, that would be a gross invasion of privacy if they were doing it - but what's the business reason for putting all this effort into it?

I can almost see the "they're using it for advertising" or "they're selling information about whether you have a dog or a baby, of course!", but notifying every time they make noise?

There's obviously more to this story than these sensational knee-jerk reactions assume. They're just so non-curious for a supposed 'investigation'.

Well, person didn’t have a dog and then they suddenly do, and that will be noted by the device. I don’t understand the downplaying here, even though it’s correct that these people not necessarily know what they’re doing. The device does collect information about you and does listen (all while costing thousands of dollars). And these spy features they announce are not a product for common users but for data companies.
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Just because your own imagination is limited you suppose theirs is the same? People with any semblance of power can be incredibly petty.
"they recently didn't have a baby and now they do" is worth thousands of dollars of product sales
I agree. It is much more likely that this for QoL project not implemented. Imagine the TV being smart enough to skip to before the baby interrupted.
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Different people learn new things differently. Folks without a background in RE, who are playing with these tools, may also not care about privacy until they find a reason to. I don’t see anything wrong with folks taking a roundabout way of finding out how things work; Be it software or privacy.
I think the issue is mostly over-sensationalizing findings.

For example, it would be tiresome to have someone insist that s0ss is clearly an illegal hacker with multiple felonies to his name solely because he chats with YCombinator's secret anonymous hacking collective. And yet this post right here makes it very clear you are one of us! ;-)

It's been a feature of the phones for years too.

While caution is definitely warranted after LG, I am definitely getting the impression that people are far too quick to jump to conclusions because an A.I. service told them something without them factually checking it first

If normies understood that baby crying detection also requires everything-except-baby-crying detection, they would be up in arms about being spied upon... and here they are
Sometimes, the essence of a story and end goals has more value than the actual finding and story itself. Most us probably don't know this is part of a documented feature, and this is the first time I'm hearing of SmartThings integration. I'm still not quite sure what the point of these detection are.
This reads like you want to gate-keep people first exploring and discovering the absurdity of the surveillance state we live in.

In my opinion, Claude "gaslighting" is a signal the other way - If Claude thinks they've discovered something, that means the llm-compression of most digitalized human knowledge still finds SmartThing a disturbing piece of tech that user do not want.

First off, not all gatekeeping is bad. The locked doors at the power plant marked caution are locked because the wrong move will kill you and it will hurt a lot the entire time.

So first we have to the examine the gate being kept, and who's the keeper. If it's "being allowed to vote" and the gate is being kept by "men", sure, tear down that wall. In this case however, the gate being kept is not reading the documentation and being mind blown for something that's documented. Not like, hidden away somewhere, but plainly documented. I'm torn though, because xkcd 1053 also applies. Unfortunately, tech is one of those areas where you can only cry wolf so many times before people just totally ignore you.

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> Swarms of RE-hopefuls are now using tools they don't understand to work on projects they don't understand

I mean, that’s just a statement of fact from the grandparent, no? I don’t see it as gatekeeping; are you focusing on some other part of the comment?

I think someone who’s aware of how to do Reverse Engineering being tired of those who’re making mistakes but advertising the output of those mistakes as legitimate discovery is pretty normal. I remember when I was learning FreeBSD that I’d show up in the mailing lists thinking I’d found bugs, but really I hadn’t read the docs well enough, and people were direct with me that I needed to do better if I threw the word “bug” around. It’s just normal peer feedback.

I would respectfully submit that trying to treat Anthropic’s models’ nonsense alarmism like it is legitimate output is closer to gaslighting. At best, the output shows that the majority of people have an alarmed tone.

The comment seems to imply to me that they are too gullible to understand what the LLM tells them and are being gaslit into believing things that smarter researchers would know without needing an LLM. Honestly, the comment seems dismissive of the current reality in general.
If actual researchers with real experience are disagreeing with LLMs, I'd generally still trust the real experts.

At a dead minimum, I'd expect something like "addressing the concerns the experts are raising" instead of trying to do a character assassination.

I generally read "character assassinations" as suggesting that someone has no real technical arguments available - conversely, the experts here are citing specific facts and evidence.

Almost like a calculated dismissal.
There is a Rick and Morty episode where Rick opens up a store that removes the curses from free items the Devil is handing out.

(Surprisingly, the Devil does not consider lawyering up, which is odd because I would expect the Devil to be pretty familiar with lots of lawyers. It’s fiction of course.)

It would be great to use AI to do something analogous with these spy TVs. I would be very interested in stripping the “smart” crap out of my TV to turn it into a kiosk.

If only. The EFF has been harping about this for literally decades. The DMCA in the US and similar anti-circumvention laws around the world (primarily EU) make doing that a serious crime, with punishments well beyond any conceivable impact to society at large.
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What’s a better way to make money than to sell the solution to a problem you created! Don’t let Samsung read this…
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I’m surprised this level of surveillance from a smart TV (if this is real; right now the only sources are social media) doesn’t open up Samsung to a lawsuit.

To wit: There was a lawsuit where Susan Clements-Jeffrey sued Absolute Software (Lojack) for a stolen laptop she acquired; Lojack used surveillance to track down the stolen laptop and Susan successfully sued for invasion of privacy (Lojack settled instead of trying to fight it).

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If OpenAI really banned him for that reason, that would be pretty stupid. If you can no longer use an LLM for reverse engineering without worrying about your account, that drastically reduces its value.
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In my efforts to reverse engineer the LG firmware to validate Gamers Nexus claims, I got a warning very quickly. I appealed that quickly and successfully.

Then I applied for daybreak blue and haven’t had any issues since.

It also a matter of phrasing. Say what you want to achieve not how if it is approaching defensive or cyber stuff.

Also state you are working on your own devices and software. (If that is the case of course.)

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FWIW I've spent the past few days happily reverse-engineering various aspects of DOS games I've long been curious about. I finally understand how Arjan Brussee did the scrolling in Jazz Jackrabbit. It's brilliant. This guy is a genius.

It's somewhat complex to understand; I didn't understand Claude's textual explanation at first. After asking for a html/js simulator showing things visually it clicked.

No pushback from Claude so far.

Claude doesn’t push back if it thinks the thing you’re doing is old. OAI will sometimes start barking at you if it thinks you’re making a keygen even if it’s 25 years old.
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> If you can no longer use an LLM for reverse engineering without worrying about your account, that drastically reduces its value

...for a niche of customers, from whom the revenue is probably entirely negligible to OpenAI.

Not saying it's right, ethical or anything like that, but it's not "stupid"

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"Why you bother about local AI? LOL with the $ you spend for <insert hardware here> you can buy 5 years of 20x account". Yeah. 5 years where you are told what you can do.
It’s quite something when western companies act more like authoritarian governments than actual authoritarian governments. I just wish RAM was less expensive ;(
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My guess is we're within a year of the first governments banning local LLM AI at any scale. Declare GPU's as munitions that must be registered and ban any card with more than X GB of RAM and more power than a 3060 or something like that.

That could be done with an executive order in the US, and it probably wouldn't take much to get it to pass congress.

Now, don't worry, businesses can still buy a lot more GPU compute than that, but they have to register and track their usage just like any other company making/buying weapons.

There is zero chance this will happen.
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I use local abliterated models + paid for subs like OAI or A\ and avoid touching anything that would hit their TOS + anonymously paid for Chinese pay as you go for things in between those two.

Works very well.

5 years, assuming the terms don't change.
5 years where you can get arrested if the AI tattles to the feds.
Just wait till your GPU legally requires an online connection to run an LLM.
an aside. I'm visiting my wife's parents and they have a new samsung TV. the remote doesn't even have an input selection button on it anymore. the default state of the tv pushes you to a big complicated home screen covered in ads and always pushing you towards their streaming live TV.

they like most poeople have a cable box plugged in, but every time the tv is switched off, the default behaviour of the tv is to forget what input it was on and goes back to the home screen where you have to use a convoluted set of button presses to get back to a non-samsung, non-app device.

You can switch this off somewhere in the settings, something they would never figure out on their own, so that it re-opens on the last selected input. I did this in the past, but then it seems an OS update wiped out all the settings, including the one that makes their cable remote work with the TV.

there is now no doubt that the TV is made to function primarily as an ad-delivery machine with explicit dark patterns built in for the task. I did them one more favour and reset their ad id and unchecked all the consent boxes on the privacy terms pages

going forward anyone who cares about their choice and privacy should not allow their TV to connect to a network at all and simply use it as a dumb link to their devices of choice, or ideally, find a better company to buy from, if that exists.

My CPAP machine has a modem in it that transmits data without ever being connected to my network. I can see a future where Samsung decides to do something similar. Perhaps even contracts with Starlink so they can transmit even larger chunks of real-time data. It makes me sick to think about that possibility, but I don't think it's far-fetched.
I doubt any TV company will ever do this, for two reasons. The first is simply that it would be obvious due to FCC filings. The second is that 99% of their customers hook their TV up to the internet so they can use streaming apps on their TV. They're very unlikely to eat the cost of putting a cellular model in every TV, take the PR hit for doing so, simply to capture the ACR data of the 1% of their customer base that is most likely to figure out another way to disable it.

Whereas your CPAP machine is likely a high margin device and the reason it has that modem is because insurance companies require compliance data in order to continue providing coverage for replacement supplies. Resmed or whoever is happy to bundle in the cost of the modem + service in order to keep selling high margin supplies.

Starlink? So I guess the TV cannot be used to harm Russian citizens :>

In that case we find where the antennas are and sabotage them. Aluminium foil around your TV (it can just be covered in for example plastic or black paper), or in/around walls.

"SAMSUNG ERROR 306, TV will not unlock until you give it a clear connection to starlink"

Just another line in our "Please drink verification can world".

Also reminds me of the TVs that eventually crashed by collecting to much data but having no internet connection to upload it so it fills up the disk.

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> the default state of the tv pushes you to a big complicated home screen covered in ads and always pushing you towards their streaming live TV.

Audible does this now too. Instead of opening up to your library and your books on default it opens to an obnoxious home screen that promotes Prince Harry and Kara Swisher's books. It's so annoying. I'm not in the market for Prince Harry's book and I will never be in the market for Prince Harry's book, stop shoving his face at me all the time. I wish we could block certain authors and books from showing up in our ads constantly but there is no way to do it!

Samsungs interface is godawful.

TVs once had a simple input button on the controller. Now there’s just the Home Screen that you described. It’s very confusing to use

The real galling thing that my newest samsung tv started doing on the last update is that it doesn't even start out on the "Media" tab of the home screen. The number one thing I want to do with my TV is now an afterthought. It's left-down-down, click before I even get to do TV stuff with my TV (and of course, after that, I have to wade through the samsung shovelware in order to get to the 2 streaming things I actually use). I saw an "alternate home screen for your samsung tv" project on here a couple days ago and I'm definitely going to check it out when I have an afternoon to curse at samsung.

The part that is really interesting to me is that they seem to be desperately trying to get me comfortable with some kind of "It's not TV, it's Samsung TV" attitude, when what they're actually accomplishing is convincing me that TV just sucks now and it makes me loathe Samsung. It's as if they hired a guy to sit next to me on the couch and every once in a while, he pokes me with a sharp stick and yells "SAMSUNG!"

Screens and menus are cheaper than remotes and buttons.
I'm talking about the remote and buttons. Samsung's remote is just obscenely bad.

https://p.kagi.com/proxy/51BpdDH3e2L.jpg?c=CXPfL3-FqybbvZNQU...

there is not a button to change inputs. You have to go to a home screen and the inputs are commingled with other options like streaming apps.

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Replacement-2019-2024-Solarce...

and of course they 'intelligently' hide inactive inputs

Who needs DRM like HDCP if you can just use the capabilities baked into the TV to your advantage?
from his twitter account:

> if your samsung TV model doesnt have a microphone, it will look for connected devices with one, such as a soundbar or a connected bluetooth device. this gets shipped off to bixby.

Is this not the expected function when you use bixby?

(Not saying people should use bixby mind you)

Y'all remember the Energy Star logo on computers?

Maybe it's time for something like that, a shared baseline standard of "this thing won't spy on you", with massive financial penalties for companies caught lying about it. Prime adoption by making it a requirement for anything bought by the government.

Then consumers can reliably comparison-shop for a "TV" that doesn't turn into a traitorous 1984 telescreen the moment it breaks out of the LAN or you fail to click "maybe later" on its incessant dark pattern pop-ups.

I like that. But that should be for the "cookie scenario" of using e.g. selling viewer habits. Not for wiretapping.

Wiretapping is just illegal and should be treated as such.

> Not for wiretapping.

Part of the problem is (uninformed, false) "consent" being buried in a lengthy and silently-mutating Terms of Service.

https://ryf.fsf.org
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Is there a non-Twitter source to read the whole thing? Were all of them banned?
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How else will they subsidize the cost of the jumbotron in your living room?
Yesterday's post (about rooting a samsung) was a $3,000 TV. I don't think it's about affordability.
Well, it would be a $3001 TV without the extra money they collected on the side...
This is the answer. Lots of people (myself included) are happy to buy a big, cheap TV, but it's cheap because the manufacturer gets money by paid app placement, ads (sometimes), and selling information about you.

A senior friend has bad vision, so I recommended an inexpensive but enormous TV that they can use as a display, and never let it connect to the network. Unfortunately, every few months the display tries to coax them into connecting to WiFi, and it confuses the heck out of them. But, that's the game.

Is it actually proven that TVs are sold below cost or is it just a conjecture to justify the ads.
People still bought TV's when they were comparatively more expensive (hell we rented them here in the UK). I don't buy this line that "oh if you want a cheap TV...". No, it's an underhand tactic to try and justify adtech's creepy outreach.
when TVs were this expensive you didn't have this technology. Furthermore you had less competition from e.g. Korea and China in the TV sector.
Television is adtech
it definitely started that way, like with radio before it. early programs were directly paid for by advertisers and the adds were right in the middle of the show presented by the hosts! (kinda like how yt does it now sometimes but even more so)

its literally why we call the whole genre of soap operas that. they would all be sponsored by soap and cleaning product companies trying to reach stay at home moms as their target market for the ads.

ads were along for so much of the history of tv... its easy to forget because recently netflix made it seem like we could just directly pay for content as just entertainment (like movies always were).

but those days are gone and we are returning to the roots. i dont think a single streamer doesnt have an ad tier and we are starting to lose the ad free pay more options too (disney, amazon)

That it was ok in the past certainly doesn't mean it's ok now. And TV advertising wasn't as sinister as it is now with targeted ads that require a detailed profile of every viewer. Everyone just got the same ads.

If blocking ads won't be possible anymore then I'll just pirate everything. And jailbreaking TVs and other hardware.

Expensive TV also spy on you, so spending more does not help
This is the point everyone misses. It's not just that they are subsidizing the price of the TV. Whenever there is an opportunity to extract more profit, eventually they will do it. The rich are not immune from being targeted by this but they sure like to think that they are when they support this behavior in the companies they control.
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Wifi access points should offer a sort of "/dev/null" network for smart devices to connect to.
How's that different than just not connecting?
Because if a device can't connect, it will often have logic to try to find other routes e.g. open WiFi nets

It would be tricky to implement, but a network tarpit that responds on TCP as if outgoing packets are being accepted and routed might be useful.

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> Unfortunately, every few months the display tries to coax them into connecting to WiFi, and it confuses the heck out of them.

I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that if the TV had a crap connection it would stop nagging.

I’m just curious what brand the tv is? That way I can be sure to avoid it.
It doesn't matter, it's all of them.
Hilariously enough, the sort of TVs used to display advertising in public places[1] don't have any of this annoying spy/adware installed.

1: https://tru-vumonitors.com/21in-to-65in-monitors/

True, but they're MUCH more expensive. For example, the lowest-end 43" this company sells for a little over $2000; you can find ones on Amazon for a tenth the price. Yes, a lot of that is the industrial quality, but some of it is the spy/adware subsidization.
Yup. I just find it funny that the one place it's unacceptable to show ads is over other people's ads.
I thought I remembered LG or some other brand was identifying ads in your content to replace them with other ads.
I'm curious if someone has started cataloging these cases. These spying TVs seem like a common industry practice.
I believe GamersNexus were talking about doing more exhaustive testing across different brands after their video on LG models specifically.
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Cool... Would it be possible to poison all that nice telemetry with perfectly good information, live from Hogwarts or from some other interesting place? The Village from the series "The Prisoner" might also be a good place to send telemetry from.
This stuffs mad, should I be doing something to my Samsung TV to neuter it? Has anyone rolled all this up somewhere?
There was just a post yesterday about how to root your samsung. I rooted my samsung and removed ads, mics, and my agent is looking into this one as we speak [codex].

Happy to post to github if you'd like.

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There needs to be a class action against these companies. People should straight up go to jail for how invasive these TVs are.
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Don't connect it to the internet.
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Do a search on X on the topic, the news about Samsung was broken on there by a guy who had rooted his Samsung TV using AI tools and he and others created guides for neutering the stuff out of it
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Selling it off might be a good solution
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Not buy smart TVs and especially Samsung smart devices in general?

From what I heard these are especially awful, even by low IoT standards.

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A perhaps relevant "Clean Your TV" project (although it doesn't work for Samsung): https://github.com/Gathin23/cleanyourtv
i wonder if the Samsung / LG stuff is how the stock market seemed so "predictable" to some people in early morning trading for a while... imagine having the keys to buckets containing all the plaintext gathered from all the tvs listening in conference rooms on earnings days...
>how the stock market seemed so "predictable" to some people in early morning trading for a while

Has this been quantified? Otherwise it's easy to fall for confirmation bias, eg. "facebook is secretly listening to you"

> confirmation bias, eg. "facebook is secretly listening to you"

Agreeing with your general point - don't jump to conclusions without evidence - but I don't like it if we're now establishing the "Facebook/Google/Apple/etc is secretly listening to you" rumors as the canonical example of that behavior, and thereby exempting companies from further scrutiny in this.

We've seen that by now there exists both the will and the technical means to pull off stuff like this. So even if it used to be a baseless rumor and urban legend, it deserves to be re-checked periodically, because companies might start to do it for real at some point. Samsung here actually did.

(Google also comes awfully close with its "song detector" which is now a stock Android feature I think)

The thing about the facebook is listening to you rumors is that the reality is so much worse than them actually surreptitiously listening to you. Their knowing who you're interacting with and what you're likely to talk about is more alarming. Dismissing facebook listening to your conversations is shortsighted in a way I find fairly repulsive.
This is why you buy a display panel and not a smart TV.
Or just buy the subsidized TV and never connect it to the internet. I've yet to see them adding cellular modems.
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Underrated approach. Even if the screens are a tad more expensive by today's subsidized standards. There are also many FHD and 4k non-smart TVs on the second hand market, with many given away for free on your preferred marketplace website.
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So... Wiretapping is pretty clear violation. And it's punished severely in most jurisdictions (eg: OpenAI engineer installing wiretaps).

So, this is wiretapping at a mass scale. Just how many crimes do the executive class occur before they get turned into the past-tense... The executed class?

I am for a corporate death penalty. Companies that engage in such mass criminal activities do not deserve to exist.

Since you consented to it, legally it's not wiretapping.
You really don’t even need corporate death penalty , just actual corporate hard time in jail
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Executive class? I expect there was at least one engineer involved that should be facing millions of counts of wiretapping, so a few million years in prison.
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We’ve opted into surveillance as a feature. It’s sad.

Now if someone can root tizen so we can actually bypass their insane restrictions on booting to an HDMI input by default it would be appreciated.

It's beyond me why people are still buying smart TVs. I've juist looked on a large EU webshop (bol.com). You can buy a non-smart, full-HD, 40 inch TV for less than $200.
> full-HD, 40 inch TV

are we living in 2010 or something?

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Because for most people to get any utility out of it, they need to plug in a smart device.

It doesn't matter whether you run android TV from the TV itself or an external device.

All the popular streaming services throttle or block open devices.

There's no regulation on it, because regulators want locked-down hardware that can only take actions approved by them.

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People want 4k, HDR, 60+ inches.
And probably OLED or something close to that
All the ad tracking in smart TVs has driven prices down. Tracking and ad data has turned a customer from a one time purchaser to a revenue stream for as long as the device is in use.

If you want a high quality TV for the best price your best bet is either disable/opt out of all the tracking data, or even better just never hook it up to the internet at all and plug an AppleTV or Chromecast on it.

If you look for a Samsung TV without “smart” features you pretty much have to find them under “commercial displays” and you’ll pay a premium for it.

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I don’t find a non-smart 4K television on Bol, except for a single 800€ model. Sorry but it’s not 2016, I’m not gonna sit and watch content at a resolution worse than my laptop’s.
because sadly Samsung and LG make the best OLED TVs on the market by far. what you need instead, is to buy some tv box to use on the side.
What keywords did you use? Dumb TV gives zero hits.
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because 40 inches is tiny these days (sorry boys).
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People were up in arms (and rightly so) when the LG TVs were found out for their spying thanks to the Gamers Nexus investigation. At least LG TVs can be rooted and you can install apps like Glasshouse [0] to disable all the telemetry and add substantial new features that you can't do via the officially sanctioned Dev Mode. The vulnerability that enabled rooting was recently patched so hopefully another can be found.

Hopefully similar apps will come along for Samsung now that root on it can be achieved [1].

[0] https://github.com/rorygallagher2024/glasshouse

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50218633

vocal people on the Internet are "up in arms" but does the general public care that some LG exec says they "own the glass"? I think that at best, they might care until they see the ad-subsidized price tags.
To what extend do these "smart" products state how, when and what data they are collecting and selling?

Isn't it high time for legislation that at least makes it clear on the box what kind of sensors and integrations it has and how bad the product is privacy wise?

Also, shouldn't corporate spying disguised as automated content recognition and classification be limited or outright be banned?

And all this connected garbage should by law be able to function with the cord cut and without registration, and if an update negatively changes the advertised product characteristics the customer must be allowed to return it for full paid price even if it is 10 years old. Force the manufactures to make statements on the "box" about the features, the support duration and level, and the privacy characteristics.

Why don't politicians care about this?

Why don't politicians care about this?

Because there have not yet been any high profile cases involving the collected data used to embarrass or convict a politician. It just takes one embarrassed congress critter to get a giant red sticker on all these devices, their boxes and ads: "This Device Transcribes and Reports Your Conversations" and that is before including those that upload camera screenshots of what you are watching and video of the viewers doing something untoward.

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Your outrage is well earned, but fairly rare. The reason nothing is done is because the public doesn't care.
> Why don't politicians care about this?

Because it is not the subject that will win them the next election.

And even if they care, some things are easier said than done. With politicians who care, you get things like GDPR, which goes in the right direction, but is a huge legal mess. And it is a mess because it can't be made simple.

Obviously, you have to take consumer interests into account, but you also have to take companies interest into account too, both big and small, otherwise they will just stop doing business, which is bad for the economy and will mean that consumers won't find what they want at a reasonable price. You have to think about the loopholes big companies will invariably find, and covering them will add complexity, but still make it so that small companies can comply without a full time team of lawyers assisting them.

For example, you say the consumer could return it for a full refund on a bad update, but to whom? Should the burden be put on the small retailer who sold it to you (and may be out of business)? There is already plenty of stuff the manufacturer must tell you, usually one a piece of paper no one reads, and the more you ask, the less people will read because there will be too much information. A "privacy score" may be a good idea, if well designed, it will share a place with the energy score, environment score, repairability score, safety signs, origin, etc... And how do you differentiate actual automated content recognition that consumers could want from spyware, formally, so that the first one is allowed but not the latter.

All that to say that it is not impossible, but even with politicians caring, it is complicated. European politicians care (because it can win them votes), the results are so complicated they are getting ridiculed by the rest of the world.

They don't care because of several reasons. 1. They get paid not to 2. They are told not to.

Alot of this spying ends up producing valuable data for different agencies to purchase which otherwise they cannot legally obtain without a warrant. Sure some of it has some commercial value, but a lot of it is probably more valuable for domestic spy operations.

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Politicians didn’t even do anything about Epstein. I’m pretty sure they’re all compromised.
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> Also, shouldn't corporate spying disguised as automated content recognition and classification be limited or outright be banned?

A lot of info collected by 3 letter agencies is based on it.

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Claude Code for coding and DeepSeek + opencode for reverse engineering at this point.

DeepSeek will break the binary into code and Claude will search for problems. Now you have most of exploitation chain.

Claude is happily reverse engineering for me, a recently sunsetted mobile game and an old PlayStation game. If it doesn’t moralize at you and refuse to do it, it’s easier to use the smarter model on the subsidized subscription. I’m doing as much as I can now before they start refusing.
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Can you share the details of your stack? I have some obscure commercial Windows software from 90s I wish to run. Claude refuses any RE attempts.
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I'm also interested in your setup!
You know what bothers me? So much of human ingenuity wasted on rather worthless tasks.
Doesn't take much ingenuity to code up a basic pretrained TF lite model to analyze an image.
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It’s mind boggling that in the UK there’s a law that says:

> “A plank of wood must not be carried along a pavement. It can only be moved if it is being unloaded from a vehicle or taken into a building.”

But big tech cannot be regulated at all. We used to regulate any minor thing that was annoying enough, but a whole industry spying and prying on the whole population is fine.

> But big tech cannot be regulated at all.

It cannot be regulated because we let dollar/capital rise above political authority.

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> “A plank of wood must not be carried along a pavement. It can only be moved if it is being unloaded from a vehicle or taken into a building.”

Is that a good law or is it a barnacle? Is it enforced in the UK?

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Your cavalier anti plank control attitude is what’s wrong with Americans
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Big tech isn't being regulated? There's increasingly privacy related laws, both in the US and abroad, that directly affect them. How many times a year do we read about Big Tech being issued 9-10 figure fines? One could state that they're not regulated enough, but to say they're unregulated is just false.

> We used to regulate any minor thing that was annoying enough

Your example is a good reason why that approach was foolish.

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Is that a thing? I ask because I and my best friend have vivid memories of my step dad, who used to be a postman, cycling home from town with 4 - 5m timbers under one arm. This would have been late 80s/early 90s. He’d call out and wave to people he knew with his “free” hand as he passed as well.

If even moving a plank of wood is illegal I can’t imagine how he got away with that, unmolested by plod, for so many years.

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People carrying planks of wood on the sidewalk is obvious to everyone and clear inconvenience. What tech companies do in software is not, and has no physical immediately tangible effect on the world. These things should be regulated, but they're so opaque and disconnected from the eventual negative externalities that it's hard to get legislators to see it.
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If your building or other construction is unsafe for the public, the local authority has the right to make it safe, if necessary by demolishing it; if you are insufficiently responsive to a notice that you must make it safe. Maybe tech companies need that kind of incentive before they will care enough not to subject their customers to this kind of abuse.
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In the interests of accuracy, the law (the Metropolitan Police Act 1839) actually states

""" 54 Prohibition of nuisances by persons in the thoroughfares.

Every person shall be liable to a penalty not more than level 2 on the standard scale, who, within the limits of the metropolitan police district, shall in any thoroughfare or public place, commit any of the following offences; (that is to say,)

...

8. Every person who shall roll or carry any cask, tub, hoop, or wheel, or any ladder, plank, pole, showboard, or placard, upon any footway, except for the purpose of loading or unloading any cart or carriage, or of crossing the footway:

... """ https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/2-3/47/section/54

The plank of wood is one element in a much broader statute, rather than an example of hyper-specificity. And it might have been strictly applied at the time, but that doesn't mean you're definitely going to get into trouble nowadays.

In a similar vein, the UK *does* have laws that affect big tech. UK GDPR places requirements on processing of personal data:

""" Personal data shall be:

(a)processed lawfully, fairly and in a transparent manner in relation to the data subject (‘lawfulness, fairness and transparency’); """ https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2016/679/article/5

Whether that's properly enforced is (as with the plank) a completely different matter.

In the UK, at least, we don't need new regulations, we need to more effectively apply the regulations we already have in place. But there is also a balance to be made between enforcement through fines and enforcement through changing behaviour: it's much better to work with companies to bring them into compliance than it is to just fine them and without actually changing anything.

Just to emphasise:

> within the limits of the metropolitan police district

It's a local London law. In England such laws are passed by parliament because there is no other mechanism, but in countries with devolved lawmaking states and cities have much crazier laws.

There is a counter incentive, the money the companies pay the politicians.
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Any rule is as good as its enforcement.

The plank rule just exists, not enforced, so nobody observes it.

Same will happen with the high-tech regulation. In fact, it is already happening left and right where it does exist.

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> But big tech cannot be regulated at all.

As far as the censorship goes UK is trying hard. So follow the money?

Devils advocate ish reason:

People understand what a plank of wood is and how it works.

People, including the vast majority of politicians, don’t understand our technology at all. It’s magic. Why does a light come on when they flip the switch? Magic. Computers are deep black magic.

How can they write effective regulation? Or tell the difference between proposals that are good or bad written by others?

If politicians regulated big tech more we’d probably end up with a ton of regulatory capture that legislated monopolies for big tech and shut out open source and startups, because who has the money to influence the ignorant lawmakers at scale?

We are now in a world where small groups of high priests understand certain things, and few others. We’ve been there for a while but it’s gotten far more opaque in the last 25 years or so.

Even something like a nuclear reactor or an aircraft is much easier to explain. The last episode of the Chernobyl series did a great job explaining what was wrong with that reactor design to a layperson. But computing… and networks… people who do understand it have forgotten just how ludicrously arcane and inscrutable it is to most.

A big difference too is that by the Church-Turing theorem there is (as a side effect of it) a provably infinite number of ways to perform any computation. Which means you can’t just legislate “don’t do that.” Physical machines are not like that.

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> > “A plank of wood must not be carried along a pavement. It can only be moved if it is being unloaded from a vehicle or taken into a building.”

This isn't a real thing. It's like the thing about it being legal to shoot Welshmen if they're in York after nightfall, and other such shit.

The problem with regulating big tech is the unplacable internet. Who can regulate the internet? Who gets to make rules for the global network?

Politicians are keenly aware that regulation has to be administered, and administration costs money. The internet subsists on low overhead, and per jurisdiction administration would significantly change almost everything about the current internet. The public wont allow that.

If the public actually starts demanding regulation, we will see a fracturing of the internet into national networks. It will become impossible (or at least uneconomical) to run reddit, youtube, or facebook as global networks. They might continue to exists, but they will be sectioned off.

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Dog bark and baby crying detection are advertised features for SmartThings integrations. Door bell and door knocking are also included, this is surfaced directly if you hook the TV or sound bar into SmartThings.
I had to check this and it's true. Not saying Samsung or 3rd parties don't take advantage of any data they can collect, but the story the tweets tell is super biased against them. Here, the detection seems limited to specific pattens required for a particular feature.
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But does this mean they don't turn this on by default resell that data? X house has dogs or whatever?

We clearly need a whole new privacy framework where everything is optional and opt-in, plus open software to monitor this compliance.

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I will add: Use the TV as a HUB for all IOT, light sensor so you know when the light is on or someone passes in front of the TV and there are some others but I can't remember now. They are all advertised in the Smart Things app.

I hate 2 things about my samsung tv's (I have 4 only samsung): the simplistic remote and ads on home screen. Even with custom dns sometimes they get through.

Remember guys, if they are reading it for wrongthink, they are reading it for industrial espionage.

Anthropic and openAI just announced they’re spinning out competitors to their biggest customers… right after ingesting all of their IP and contracts. Do the math.

(Or don’t, because they’ve been caught stealing math research)

> Anthropic and openAI just announced they’re spinning out competitors to their biggest customers… right after ingesting all of their IP and contracts. Do the math.

Do you have any links to further reading on this. I haven't read anything like this and also couldn't find anything in their newsrooms. The only thing I read is that they want to have more people work on implementations.

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Interesting. Could you share a link to this announce?
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> because they’ve been caught stealing math research

No. They haven't been caught stealing. Tristan Buckmaster publicly expressed surprise that the OpenAI model has used the niche approach he pursued (with AI assistance). 10,000 agents exploring various approaches make it much less surprising.

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This is again will be very funny race to watch. Right now you can fairly do lots of reverse enginnering or "hacking" with off the shelf Chinese models, and they are very capable (GLM3 for example) which can be run locally if you stomach the hardware. Tools like rea are also becoming more popular. If openai continues to be pedantic, they will lose the technical base given how close is the gap getting.
The company I work for has a plan B to switch to alternative, self-hosted models if providers pull off strange moves, such as drastic pricing changes. We have already switched from one provider to another once, and we do not want to get burned again. We do not reverse engineer, just regular development.
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Have you tried Qwen3.8-Flash-Next? I found it significantly better in anything I tested than GLM5.3-Flash, but the thing is you either use Alibaba cloud or you host it yourself (no lesser quant than unsloth 4.5 or mx4/nvfp4 and kv no more quantized than int8).
It is great if you have enough RAM. I have enough to run it, but not enough for prefix cache. 27b is so much faster with long term tasks.
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For the past few days I've been trying to use rea to reverse engineer my Samsung Galaxy Buds 4 Pro to get seamless functionality working outside of the Samsung ecosystem with no luck (the buds 4 pro require Samsung devices + a Samsung account for seamless to work, I only have a Galaxy phone + my macbook). I think we're still far away from having something that works that well.
This looks very bad on OpenAI.

What is next? Power and water company suspending your account if your home and car are not streaming enough telemetry.

I am glad that open models are closing on frontier.

Claude is absurdly sensitive to anything that touches cyber, and threatens bans if it gets a whiff of a pentest going on. it wouldnt surprise me if openai had a similar approach.

Yesterday I joked that claude gave me a cyber stop for asking how to make the anime girl video for an exploit, but it was a thing that happened. Meanwhile im trying to convince people around me that having grok nudify people isnt "fine" just because grok says it is. Its wild where the lines a drawn.

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Tastelessness aside, this seems perfectly rational to me. Unlike reverse engineering for the purpose of developing security exploits, "nudification" doesn't meaningfully expand the capabilities of malicious actors with access to free online porn and Photoshop.
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Bad on OpenAI? The account got suspended.

This reflects horribly bad on Samsung!

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I agree with you, but if OpenAI wasn't suspending users for exposing cyber-spying that these consumer companies like Samsung are doing, more and more people would expose such issues.
{"deleted":true,"id":50219299,"parent":50219099,"time":1792830945,"type":"comment"}
With Kimi K3.1 Pro, today WAS the day they actually caught up.

I’ve been saying this for the past few months - once the inflection point happens (such as today), it’s only a matter of 2 years when American closed models won’t be able to catch up with Chinese open models

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Did you mean Mimo v2.6 Pro? Because Kimi K3.1 Pro is proprietary, and not open.

Also leading the frontier is much much harder than catching up to frontier.

{"deleted":true,"id":50230941,"parent":50218633,"time":1792932066,"type":"comment"}
It's as if an intern added it and then they just forgot about it.
In my experience, it's more likely a whole team of supposedly brilliant engineers were paid good money to work on this feature. Sad as that is.
Samsung is starting to be a little too much creepy.

I don't know if it's just greed or.

I refused to create an account on their galaxy phone because of the mandatory phone number needed. Yes, I know they can harvest it in other ways, it's just a stand.

If people can hustle for a little side money, corporations can do it as well. Why not?

Corporations are considered persons and they need to pay shareholders.

Seriously, it’s pure greed and people who love money enable this, because they think they are immune to this, or harmless.

Samsung has always been creepy. You just didn’t know it.

Their smart TVs are a nightmare, and have been for the last 15 years (at least)

Without an account, they don't even allow installs from galaxy store. So their default apps and their security updates are probably contingent on having an account now.

Not much different from playstore but that is also a problem.

Without an account, you can’t even properly use your freezer
Maybe a company that is both a complete monopoly chaebol and running the country is a bad thing
They're running it and then throwing away the result if you don't consent? Way to waste electricity...
This is why TVs are always so laggy, they have 400 ad and tracking scripts running the whole time.
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I just double-checked my Samsung TV. I only bought it so it could connect to my Apple TV or Switch, so I don't need their software. Thankfully I was already cautious when I bought it and apparently never connected it to any of our networks.
Just a reminder. You can buy a kiosk TV from major TV manufacturers. You just have to look a little. Kiosk TVs are intended for lobby signage or conference rooms. You pay a little more but the garbage UI and always on piece is gone. You get 4 HDMI with them too (from what I've used).
An interesting question is whether LLMs are going to make HDTVs more or less expensive.
Please use full open source Linux distros instead. Then you could update with apt, dnf, pacman etc.
> ..its literally running.. ..It's literally called.. ..its literally AlexNet.. ..literally doesn't work..

I'm not sure it's literal enough.

Hey at least you know it's not Claude

...... or do you???

Folks, we need to move on from "this is outrageous!" to "what can we do to stop it?"
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The idea was always that Facebook or Google were listening to us and whenever we would talk about something we would shortly thereafter see an ad related to it.

Now we can basically say that its not Facebook and Google doing this directly, its our televisions and appliances that are listening and just selling that data back to the ad-networks.

This is similar to Flock and Palantir who collect info the government is not allowed to and then sell it to the government.

In this case Meta, Google etc can honestly say they aren't surrepticiously listinging to you or collecting data not in their privacy statement. They just buy it instead.

So I need to write a chaffing agent that runs when I am not home and randomly spouts synthetic conversations through non-smart speakers about nappies (kids a re long gone), nuclear weapons development, plumbing, union membership, crochet, video games, crypto coins, and other things we don't normally do.

This does not mean that Google and Facebook never do it.
> Now we can basically say that its not Facebook and Google doing this directly

Finding out that TVs are listening does not mean Google and Facebook aren't. I've had plenty of times in an old car, or on a walk talking about something only to have related ads pop up later.

They can already do that with most of the information they already have, they don't need to listen for that type of thing (though they still might be as you see here, data is data after all).

Most people are not that unique. They know where you are and who you are with and any searching or sites you have been to and what is in your text messages or whatsapp as well as that same information for all the people 6 degrees away from you. They know people like you, who are your age and like the things you like and are where you are with friends like yours etc etc it goes on and on.

People rarely talk about things unprompted and you will only notice when you think you talked about something and then see an ad for it so there is a confirmation bias as well.

Has this not been proven by now? That smart devices are used to do this, including smartphones? Their OSes just ship with apps that that record that audio information right out of the box.
Facebook was always doing this. It just wasn't proven they were.

VoIP has been around for 25 years. Compressed audio is a tiny amount of packets. It doesn't need HD audio, it just needs enough to recognize words. Enterprise VoIP only needed a 128kb connection 25 years ago to work. On a smartphone, 128kb is nothing and will blend in with background connections. Facebook could record and monitor your audio 24/7 and it won't even be a blip in the network traffic, especially if it does a quick process of the audio before sending it to Facebook.

That's a pretty good point. We kept hearing these rumors for a while now and all the usual suspects keep saying "we don't listen to your microphone on your phone" but yeah nobody expects the TV and fridge to do it, so maybe that's how it happens and people are not crazy.
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If they're doing this to TVs, what are they doing with phones?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45740675

I'm not the only one who made note of that behavior, but if i recall sometime before breaking my phone in the last couple months the behaviour ceased. probably after a factory rom update, but at this point i can no longer confirm or deny. but! i did and do have a backup of the potentially offending apk.

Ironically phones are more transparent than TVs (because there's a rooting scene as well as adb access) so I wouldn't immediately extrapolate that they're doing this but even harder on phones.
{"deleted":true,"id":50230967,"parent":50230861,"time":1792932239,"type":"comment"}
What is this referring to, Android phones? Are they really eating battery life by constantly running AI on your phone?
Yeah, the context is really vague. For the past few days log4j has been decompiling a Samsung TV and reporting on twitter the various spyware that is running
It's referring to Samsung TVs.
Maybe I'm just old fashioned or out of touch, but why is it such a barrier for people to treat their smart TV as a dumb display? Hook up a computer via HDMI and never connect the TV to wifi.

I understand that the tech in these things is a horrorshow, But so is the tech in every other smart device that normal ("I don't care how it works, just that it works" types) people allow into their homes every day - and these are the people who tech is built for, not "us". Of all the tech to raise red flags about, this seems the easiest to mitigate.

And to be completely fair, I haven't purchased a new TV (Projector yes, TV no) since I bought my plasma in 2014. That 2014 TV has smart features as well but has just never been hooked up to the internet. Maybe the new rigs can't be used until connected to a network but I wouldn't know. Enlighten me if this is the case.

One way that you probably are behind on the goings on in the TV market are that there are whole TV brands that require you to login just to use the television at all, like Roku.

These are usually the cheap models, the kind that are heavily subsidized by spyware, but the fact that this exists at all is seriously not cool.

I imagine that you can login to those televisions once and then take them offline, though I haven’t tried personally.

The other thing I would say is that here we are asking customers to basically buy duplicate products and that second product might still engage in spyware.

E.g., I’ve bought a $500 TV that comes with Roku or whatever. It already runs all my streaming apps. So the strategy now is to turn off internet on that TV and now I have to buy a streaming box and hope that it’s less intrusive. If we decide maybe Apple is the one with the least intrusive ads and tracking, that’s now $300, almost doubling the cost of the TV.

And if we buy some other streaming box like Roku or Amazon well guess what they have all the same sorts of telemetry and ads going on.

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better yet,in the age of AI why not do more?

Ive been motivated recently to start making my appliances mine by using Ai to reverse engineer and replace their firmware. So long as the appliance has been slow to update its security channels, the recent eMudrha certificate leak was the perfect opportunity to place yourself in the middle of the relationship between device and vendor. Its allowed me to make some trivial updates to my television's firmware and start to have AI build me firmware that better serves my purposes. Hoping to lobotomize it and replace everything with a simple linux system that executes a startup script to launch a Jellyfin client.

I bought it and its mine, this is the freedom we were originally robbed of.

>Hook up a computer via HDMI and never connect the TV to wifi.

Having just gone through this...it's a lot harder than you think.

Current gen TVs have specs that garden variety connect a computer can't supply over HDMI. You need HDMI 2.1 with FRL to hit it. So you climb onto google, discover yes there are minipc that can do that...except only the new ones...the "AI" ones that cost you an arm and a leg. Also they need fast DDR5 memory which is great fun right now. And the more affordable ones are AMD so no quicksync.

So you think lets maybe do a USBC dongle to an existing device, only to discover that they require different firmware (!) on the dongle depending on whether you're using a mac or a windows PC [0]. And then you realize you actually need a cable capable of 48gbps and none of the ones lying around are labelled so you have to buy a new one just in case. And after you've done all that you still don't know why its connecting at 120hz not 144hz per TV specs. And then the whole media encoding circus starts...

I can 100% understand why people just type in wifi password and call it a day. The average consumer is not up for flashing firmware onto dongles to watch their big brother series.

[0] https://kb.cablematters.com/index.php?View=entry&EntryID=147

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It's not hard; but often the TV will nag and nag until it gets a wifi connection.

And with how hard these manufacturers are trying, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they start including some alternate data connection for metadata/DRM/whatever. (ie, not the primary streaming data connection)

This is what I do. I find navigating with a remote control to be infuriating, especially when you need to search for something. With an old computer and wireless mouse and keyboard, it's so much better. Some minor configuration of Firefox's homepage and it's a fine start page for watching TV, with all your stuff right there. Plus you can have extensions that save hours of your life over time. The only downside is the remote becomes the literal keyboard and mouse which might be cumbersome for some, but I don't even think about it anymore. I've been using the same 50" for ten years.
You are unlike most people. Most people just want to come home and watch TV. Historically it used to be cable, now it's YouTube or similar. What do you think is the quickest way to watch YouTube?
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Its all about UX, I recently got sick of my LG and switch to Apple TV and made LG a dumb TV with HDMI, and surprisingly UX ia significantly worse. Apple being Apple and force their shit weird UX. My kids can’t figure it out, they used to use LG TV by themselves to open what they want to open.

Even I fucking hate it because Apple UX. is just bunch of weird behaviors popping out from every action. Apple UX rant aside, similarly many solutions has tons of UX problems, connecting a PC to TV unfortunately leads to even more problems.

All of these shit supposed to work but in practice way too many edge cases, and random issues.

Funny I am also using a Plasma from around that time (Samsung one but hopefully too dumb to spy). I guess the problem is that they'll keep turning the screws, in the same way it gets harder and harder to use Windows and Office without an account and internet connection.

As a result I'm not upgrading my TV anytime soon, and when I do, I hope to find a dumb one.

Police and FBI need a warrant to bug your home.

Samsung just needs you to buy a TV.

It’s called Terms of Service agreement
Leading to one of my favourite jokes: The Soviet Union is socialist, and bugs it's citizen's homes. America, though, is capitalist - the people must buy their own bugs.
They need to you blindly accept the terms and conditions and think "oh that seems fine" instead of returning it and costing them money.
I’ve got a Samsung frame used for two things: 1) showing hdmi 1, and 2) showing art when idle.

I guess I’m going to have to just write replacement firmware, aren’t I?

Disconnect it from the network and hook up a streaming device that is relatively trustable (e.g. Apple TV or an open source alternative).
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Nah it still boots to their annoying menus, takes forever to change modes, has lots of annoyances. I’ll be a lean firmware could be a much better experience.

I already use an Apple TV, but the Samsung’s firmware is annoying even as a dumb tv.

I've just removed my 50€/year Frame subscription. Samsung, if you're reading this, you know why.

The art was good, and I liked having it. I was disappointed that it was subscription-based. From now on the TV will be disconnected from the power supply, until I want to occasionally watch Netflix.

@brookst, let me know if you play with the firmware ;)

It's been well known for the last 5-10 years that Samsung has degraded into one of the worst consumer device manufacturers, whether it's all this tracking, or forcing you to watch ads on the home screen of your expensive tv etc.

No idea why you'd even consider anything Samsung related.

Point me to another matte TV that has the electronics separated so you just need a tiny cable to the TV? I’ll switch tomorrow.
Load the art from a flash stick and never connect it to the internet?
don't let it connect to the internet
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I'm sorely tempted to go down that road, I have a few frames. They've never been connected to the Internet, but the software on them is trash - literally the only thing I ever want it to do is display art (in standby) or display the Apple TV connected to HDMI.
{"deleted":true,"id":50232246,"parent":50218633,"time":1792940438,"type":"comment"}
Just don't buy any tech home appliance that was made after 2022.
I mean it may work for you, but the bathtub curve means that someone isn't going to have a chair when the music stops.
so is the hardware mic-off button on Samsung TV any good?
If we read the tweet - the TV then connects to whatever device it can like a home theater, other speakers and uses its microphone if it has one
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Samsung what? Fridge? Air conditioning? Dishwasher? Excavator? A single more word of explanation would make it crystal clear, whereas now I need to wonder whether it is about TV, computer monitor, smartphone or who knows what.
The tile references on-board ai. “On-board ai” here is automatic content recognition. Imagine my disappointment
AI is simply an if/else statement in disguise, you didn’t know that?
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way to miss the point.
Wasn't that used to squeeze better power efficiency etc out of the device by optimizing the parameters based on the content?

I mean it is probably also used to collect data, but this sounds like it might be more than just that. Maybe?

The mechanism you are thinking of - optimizing brightness and dynamic contrast, happens in TCON in low level hardware at fraction of a fraction of power
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now is the best time in history to buy a tv

just hack it right after purchase and own the glass

I agree with this. At this point, AI has gotten smart enough that most smart TVs can be hacked (I just did it with my LG), and TV manufacturers haven't caught up yet.
Dont buy a tv? I havent had a TV for 20 years.
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There's another analysis there showing that they still send this even if you don't agree to it. I feel like this needs to go to court.
I sure wish Tizen was rooted. I’d love to custom flash over the slow ass Samsung UI.
Just yesterday I hacked my Samsung Frame tv. The AI (codex) used an off-the-shelf root with Developer Console access (built in). Though root doesn't give you the signing keys to blow everything away and still boot (is my best understanding), but as a workaround you can still change anything you want after boot automatically.

I had it do:

- Stripping ads

- Disabling mics

- Turning off updates

- Leaving root SSH in place (protected) for future access

The key to getting codex to do this was that this is legal under DMCA, but after a certain point I had to get a new session to change all the "hacking" words into synonyms to not trigger false security alarms. Wouldn't be surprised or bothered if my chatgpt account gets banned though. I can write a blog post and publish the repo if you want

Time to invest a few tokens into an unneuthered model
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Pretty sure my Samsung plasma TV from 2011 is safe. It was all downhill from there, just competing over which display looks better with its saturation and brightness boosted all the way up with the floor models all next to each other.
This is the same company that makes "knox"... yes this will be funny.
The AI in the TV was listening for dogs barking and babys crying, a gross invasion of privacy. Possibly this could have been for ad targeting purposes.

With projects like REA, it's going to get harder and harder for companies to get away with things like this.

I'd love to see the major social media apps reverse engineered and analyzed in this way. I can only imagine the dodgy practices that'll be found if this happens.

Jaded part of me thinks companies are going frontier-model-vibe-code their security into security chips everywhere, encrypted firmware everywhere, locked down APIs everywhere and it’s going to take away the fun out of it.
> With projects like REA, it's going to get harder and harder for companies to get away with things like this.

Nope, don't worry, if you clicked on the linked you'd see OpenAI has already banned this person's account. Chinese models you say? See today's new Kimi release which intentionally had all cyber-related data removed from its training data. The window is already rapidly closing and will soon be completely closed.

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No libre agents and LLM's?
That would explain why Samsung phones always run like shit.
What I wish people understood about privacy is that the less tech adjacent a company is, the worse their privacy record.

Meta and Google will never sell your data. They will collect it and use it for targeted advertising for sure, but they consider it far too valuable and useful to sell. This is because they have the tech and expertise to use their data well.

A grocery store or a gas station chain, though? They're clueless about tech, don't know what to do with the data, and have to aggressively compete on prices. If some savvy data broker comes to them, offering them a way to essentially gain market share by pushing prices lower than the competition and selling your data to make up the loss? That's an offer they can't refuse.

Hardware manufacturers are largely on the grocery store side; they're not data-savvy and they want to make things cheaper than the competition, so they're almost forced to do these shenanigans to win the competitive rat race.

If you want to meaningfully increase privacy, don't quit Meta, quit Target, Visa and LG.

> the less tech adjacent a company is, the worse their privacy record

How does this apply to the topic of this thread? Samsung is, if anything, much more tech-savvy (tech-adjacent?) than Meta. Meta just does some high-level software and runs a few servers to host it. Samsung, across the company, builds every level of the hardware and software stack from silicon to services.

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It is weird what people think "tech" is these days. It increasingly seems to mean "anything having to do with computers".

Like yea in the 1930s, the dishwasher was "technology". Now it's just a consumer product. Many former tech companies have long ceased to be tech companies, but we forgot to stop calling them that.

What? Quit Meta first to be honest. Then quite the others.
i love this breakdown. well done.
This is a fallacy. Sure, Google doesn't sell your data. Instead, it has created the largest advertisers walled garden by which it sells downstream clients access to that data with which they can use for marketing. Meta comes in second. Samsung doesn't have such a market.

It's effectively the Southern Strategy but for data sale: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwa...

The only effective difference between them and that gas station is that the data is less likely (but not guaranteed) to end up on gray and black markets for exploitation. Regardless, that accounts for a very small percentage of sales anyway and misses the fact that most people don't want there to be a data silo that their government can tap into and utilize for surveillance. For example(s):

https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-state-ags-investigate...

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/04/google-broke-its-promi...

https://www.eff.org/press/releases/google-deceptively-tracks...

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so glad i bought a dumb tv.

i remember going store to store in search of one.

gg me, that was a smart move.

I haven’t been able to sleep since I found out that Samsung knows my dog barks.
Gotta love how the phone runs the expensive spying model regardless of consent, purely so that people who withhold consent aren't rewarded with better battery life. As if some % of the battery was still Samsung's property for their own marketing purposes. Stay classy!
As far as I can tell, there is no write up. This is a reddit post with screenshots of a Twitter/X post by @log4j. Even the Twitter post doesn’t seem informative, but Reddit isn’t a source for the information by any means.

The original link was on HN two days ago with no traction.

https://twitter.com/log4j/status/2113014142600953868

So a bit of background I spent the last 17 years going Smart TV app development.

Not a lot here is any sort of surprise to anyone in the industry.

Always on audio is common on a whole swath of devices - any that want to do Alexa style voice prompts need it. ACR is table stakes for modern TVs reselling viewer data has driven down TV prices to the point where there is no going back.

The policy file here is how you build Tizen apps. It’s a list of specific features your app needs access to and certain levels of access (controlling the TV For example) require different levels of contractual relationships with Samsung.

Everything Samsung collects should be covered in their, very dense, TOS.

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Maybe not the same exploit but I found another guy who was also able to debloat his TV: https://github.com/jss8649/quiet-tizen
These posts are engagement farming, they should be banned in HN, it’s like sending a marketing buzzword email to a technical engineer, useless.
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I always advise people to never, ever use Reddit as a reference for anything.
Why and what reference do you rec instead? Even this site gets fake news that stays up for hours.
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I would avoid and distrust most social forums, such as reddit, that have Pookas which are fond of rumpots, crackspots and how are you bix6? -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeEsx2QLJ40
Sure, ‘knee-jerk’ reddit is unreliable, but many upvotes over time with supporting comments can be a strong signal of truth
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Why? Their system is literally mined for its Q&A merit by search engines. If it was all very bad information, NYSE: RDDT would not exist.
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What a load of shit. Samsung TV always listening if you enable listening, why would they do this? /s

How dare they run a classifier locally on the TV, they should upload it uncut to Czechia like Amazon did with their ring cameras!

the point is the setting does nothing, now go back to your claude session
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Is it still news that Samsung does this? Feels like I'm reading a similar story every few months.
They hear us all the time, here is an anecdote...

I was at the butcher one day and asked for "ossobuco" because I wanted some bones for my dog, then all of a sudden I got reels with ossobuco in it, recipes, sellers, nearby shops, etc and I said WTF? Who the fuck makes posts about ossobuco? Why all of a sudden after using social apps just for football and porn all I start getting is ossobuco ads everywhere? A word you will never see anywhere now popping up in all my social feeds.

Possibility of that being random? Zero, not in this probabilistic universe we live in

I got had a similar thing happen. My buddy inherited a lake house from him father. The dock needed repair. We talked about it one evening and that same night, I got a dock supply house ad. We never once looked it up online since we are both general contractors and already know how to fix it.

Dock repair is too random of a subject to be a coincidence.

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Yeah same experience. People working in Facebook (I had a friend there) say it is only pattern behaviour, they can predict your interests, check when you meet with your friends, share WIFIs, etc, so they can imagine things you have been talking about. I call this bullshit. I dont know if my friend working at Facebook believes this, or was just hiding it for me, but it's 0% chance of them doing that. Also because I never got any of these recommendations BEFORE I mentioned it out loud, which means their prediction engine (if it exists) also knows when I am going to talk about it!
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Sorry, but there’s just zero evidence that your phone is listening to you like this. There never has been. Lots of people have tried to uncover such evidence. On the iPhone at least (not as familiar with Android), it’s not even clear how your phone would be listening and sending the data to Meta.

This isn’t happening.

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Well, dog and baby owners are great targets for advertising, so this makes sense.
Until Samsung is sued out of existence
When I was in college this sharp phd student told me that your phone, tv, and other devices talk to each other via radio frequency to build a profile on you. I've seen zero proof of this anywhere and I still think about why he told me that.
https://twstalker.com/mike64_t/status/2114150399406202896
The pseudo popup ads in this page is extremely excessive it’s outright unusable
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