Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit
Before AI showed up the UN released a report on the Attention Economy. It said Supply of content had vastly outstripped Demand. It decoupled because entertainment/media was being used to push other products. The telcos, amazon, google/fb and many others were all subsidizing content to push some other product. Exploding info chasing finite non growing eyeballs and time.
I'm looking at gaming these days and there's such an endless selection of excellent games I'd love to play. But there are far more great games than I have time to play. So when I see stuff like using AI to make games faster, I can only think what is the point, The market won't buy or play more games so something else has to give.
I feel completely the opposite. Mind, I play games a fair bit, but I generally don't feel that excited about most, and I'd say a lot of them have very repetitive tropes. I'm generally in the market for 30h+ spent on a game, so that filters out a lot of the more trendy stuff.
That sounds more like you are burned out on gaming in general. I don’t think infinite AI slop games would help here.
It could be much better games too developed using AI assistance. Just saying, using AI is not necessarily slop.
Online games though you pretty much have to follow the herds to the newest titles. You could stick around but it usually isn't pretty: tough to find full lobbies or full of sweats or both.
"there's such an endless selection of excellent games"

If you have 0 standards.

There are more games at any standard than one's lifetime to play them in.
No, not at all. You can count on one hand quality games released recently.
Why limit yourself to only recent games? They are often unpolished and overhyped. I only buy recent games if I trust the developer (and even then I often wait a bit before starting playing them).
This is the language of people just looking at high budget games. Much like people insisting there are no good films when they only look at superhero movies. Quality indie titles come out all the time.
> Quality indie titles come out all the time.

Depends on how you define high quality, indie games with quality similar to Hollow Knight do not come out all the time.

It just is much harder to have that level of polish and amount of content without a bigger well oiled team, so almost no indie games reaches that level.

Nothing meets my standards. Nothing.

No film, no music, no game.

There's good, but there is no truly magnificent to the level I burst into tears and see the face of God.

Come on people. Your standards are too low.

The solution to that is not to continue to seek consumption, but starting creation. Your consumption phase is done.

Producing things of value takes a lot of time and effort, you would be too busy to waste time lamenting about things outside of your control.

Thank you for this comment. I myself just got into vibe coding a few projects and anecdotally I've never been more excited about the future barring the economic implications of a world more reliant on AI. It feels as if the parent comment should take your recommendation to heart and start creating!!!
This and your below comment border on satire and could pass for something on r/iamverysmart.
People are expecting too much out of sitting in a chair watching a screen, whether or not you're partially in control of what happens or just passively consuming. At some point, if you want to see the face of God, you need to go trek to the south pole, sail around the world, learn to scuba dive and spend time with sperm whales and orcas. I don't think it's the "creators" here who are deficient. No depiction of action can ever beat the real thing. And nobody needs to make the real thing. It's just there and you only have to go find it. At least for now. We're quickly bulldozing and paving the entire world to build more space for computers, so get it while it's still possible.
Listen to Bach, if that doesn’t work then your standards are not high but completely wrong.
Everybody is maliciously taking you seriously :D

Hang in there! It gets better!

Honestly sounds like you’re just depressed. I don’t even mean that in a mean way.
You don't need to be depressed to see a decline in the outside world. For people that are old enough, it is quite obvious.
loading story #50231870
I think I've just got a bigger imagination than the kind of people who can sit down to enjoy Netflix.

Anybody with a big imagination must feel trapped by mediocre content. Daydreams are often more enjoyable.

Nonsense.

Even if you take an old established media, like literature, you can trivially read all the classics by the time you are 30.

Saying that about gaming industry, which is barely 50 year old, is a joke.

One can only say that when they no idea what "high standards" actually means.

> literature, you can trivially read all the classics by the time you are 30

I don't think this is true, at least not for an ordinary person, unless you're dedicating your life to it (hardly trivial) or ploughing your way through for the sake of completion rather than absorbing them intellectually and emotionally. Writers like Joyce can be difficult to even parse if you're trying to read their work quickly, and to truly understand it you'll probably need to engage with secondary sources. And then there's the likes of Proust, which aren't exactly difficult to read but are extremely long (and probably won't do much for you unless you take your time with them). There's no objectively valid set of 'classics' but we're talking about certainly hundreds and arguably thousands of books. A book a week every single week from the age of 15-30 would do it if we're taking about a medium-sized set of classics...

Plus, you're going to get a lot less out of all this reading if you have no life experience to reflect it on because you spend all your time reading.
Hey, I actually have "played all the classics" for some definition of the term.

Some time ago I started playing all the games that to me felt worthwhile to play in roughly chronological order.

I think the project is overall quite different than "reading all the classics" though - a lot of old games have aged pretty poorly so I can either skip them or abandon after giving them a fair shot.

I'm currently roughly in the 2000-2010 era of games. (It's not pure chronological, because I tend to sort play order by console, then by series, then by year.)

Which classics? There is more than the English language in the world. You could even learn every single language and read their classics, much less all good books in human history. You are either underestimating the amount of text corpus that exists or overestimating people's reading and comprehension speed.
> Even if you take an old established media, like literature, you can trivially read all the classics by the time you are 30.

Or spend a lifetime reading and re-reading them non-trivially.

"My definition of a great story has nothing to do with 'a varied and interesting background.' It is: One that can be read with pleasure by a cultivated reader and reread with increasing pleasure."

- Gene Wolfe

Games unlike books can have depth in duration of playing. While possible to play a game for 500 hours and feel very different about it on hour 501 vs 51, while books (usually) do not deliver such a feeling. Thus "playing all the classics" has much more dimensionality and as a result, requires much more time than just literally playing it once through and being done.
Games work in very different ways. Some are narratives where unless you complete them it isn’t really true to say you’ve fully played them. Others are essentially skill-acquisition challenges - you don’t have to finish Sonic the Hedgehog or ‘beat’ Civilization to be able to say you’ve played them. And others are goalless sandboxes - the Sims or Minecraft, where what you get out of it depends entirely on what you put into it.
There are roughly 50-70 new games released on Steam every day. I think there's pretty good review metrics available that you can assume 2-5% of those could be categorized as "Excellent". So that's around 1–3 excellent new games per day on just one platform.

Even if we're over-estimating "excellent" by a lot, that's still more games that anyone can reasonably play.

>There are roughly 50-70 new games released on Steam every day.

Ever bothered to actually go through the "all new releases" list on steam and actually check each new release? You should try it.

99% of "stuff" there is worthless trash, think 0 effort assetflip, which is never going to make $100 steam tax back. 1% is barely passable, as in "not a blatant insult to consumer". Unique stuff worth playing is extremely rare, if you're not 7 years old and you played more than a couple of games in your life of course.

Even if another game was never released ever again, you could still find enough fantastic games to last a lifetime.
That's how I feel about the current streaming content library and the list of books I want to read and the YT channels I want to watch and the list goes on... The fact that there is so much media vying for our time is one of the drivers bringing down old school media.
> Unique stuff worth playing is extremely rare, if you're not 7 years old and you played more than a couple of games in your life of course.

This is a hot take indeed. Unless you use the word unique to pick only a single game from each genre, even a single genre has more games than I can hope to finish in a lifetime.

I mean, I still play Dune 2, warcraft II, sc:broodwars and C&C, in addition to Starcraft II.

And that's just a single genre.

{"deleted":true,"id":50231118,"parent":50230241,"time":1792933415,"type":"comment"}
> Unique stuff worth playing is extremely rare, if you're not 7 years old and you played more than a couple of games in your life of course

I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who has played as many games as I have, and I couldn't disagree more. I find this sentiment more common amongst people who have played 20-30 games in their lifetime. The more I play, the more interested I am in the smaller titles sprinkled throughout the month. Even a janky, low budget game can do something unique. I have a massive backlog.

There are very cool games coming out every week, IMO. Just this next month,

- The Kingsfield inspired game Queen's Domain. That looks visually amazing.

- Noble Fates is a very cool Colony Sim that surpasses Rimworld in some respects (even if it comes short in others)

- Worship is a game where you play as a cult leader and command minions like Pikmin (I'm a sucker for cult games).

- County of Fortune is a massive city builder that goes a scale beyond what most city builders allow

- Silver Pines is a horror game borrowing from the genre's greats. It got a 97% on Steam.

Thanks for pushing back, completely agree. GP's 99% trash is a massive exaggeration. It's actually super tough out there for indie game devs, and you have to put up with people lumping your game in with actual trash without a chance.
3 "Excellent" games every day is a lot. And by "excellent" i mean something like BG3 or Clair E33, or at least, Hollow Knight.
Your are overestimating by orders of magnitude. There is not even one excellent game per year, lately.
What’s excellent released today? Nothing interesting the whole week: https://steamdb.info/upcoming/?lastweek=&sort=rating_desc
You should be looking at this instead,a rolling list of the top games every 30 days, many of which are new releases.

https://steam250.com/30day

just clicking on your link: Final Fantasy Resonance would likely be regarded as "excellent". If you're a fan of RPGs.

But I suppose that's part of the problem with all media. We have more media than ever, so tastes get more divserse. This can consequently be bad for "cultural" purposes because you can meet 1000 people and struggle to find more than 2 who like the kinds of games or movies you watch regularly. So you instead default back 20 years ago to The Wire or Sopranos or The Dark Knight Rises, etc. Around the last time we have "mass culture". or Sports.

For gaming, GTA VI will be an interesting time, even if I don't personally care for the series. Because that may be the first time since perhaps Pokemon GO where you have so many subgroups of gaming aligning together for a single release.

But I hate all about final fantasy starting from the name. So id say is not excellent
Yes. That's why I left the rest of my commentary on media.
Silver Pines, Order of the Sinking Star, Hellraiser, Retrospace. Those all came out in the past month.
Ok but nothing seems excellent there tbh. Even for free I wouldn’t play them.
I started building a game on a custom engine a few years ago and I used to think about selling it, but nowadays the market is so oversaturated I tend to think of it as nothing more than a coding exercise.
The market is oversaturated of mediocre games, but I struggle to find any notable titles in the past 5 years. 30 years I was pirating games I did not afford, in the past 15-20 years I bought all the games I played, but in the past few years I don't remember buying too many games because there was nothing interesting. The last games I bought were Cyberpunk 2077 (+ extension), an indie game (Forgotten City) and Stalker 2 (a disapointment).

If you build a really good game, there is a market for it. Otherwise it will be lost in an ocean of not-interesting titles.

Same thing here. I gave up on gaming all together because my library grew too much. As a kid, I didn’t even own a console, I had to borrow gameboy or go to my friend house and even then it was just an handful of cartridges. Even now, I plan to just focus on small sample of programming languages and ecosystems, and learn them inside out. There’s just too much stuff out there.
> As a kid, I didn’t even own a console

As a kid, I played games with a board and counters. Sometimes I made my own board and counters. And there was only one channel on the B+W TV.

Same thing with books but no one says to stop writing.
Creative content will become more personal and less profitable, art being some sort of commercial enterprise is a relative new phenomenon, we will survive without it. Most artists will have to generate income by performance or physical creation, just like it has been for the whole time before it was commoditized to feed the "attention economy"

What a gross and completly apt terminology for the commoditization of art from the bureaucrats by the way.

We were in the "Chase the Chuck Wagon" phase of the TV and movie industry long before AI was a factor.
It's also very easy to make high quality content. You can record a professional album with 5000$ in gear. Live instruments and all.

You can make your album accessible to every human on earth for free.

So my Instagram is full of very very high quality music, much of it I'll only listen to once.

Music from all over the world.

Its great.

Yet sad. So much music I'll never get to. I have to spend 40 to 50 hours a week generating income. If only I did better on that Meta interview way back.

I'd be retired now, free to indulge in endless entertainment.

I guess preferences vary, but the idea of spending my retirement consuming "content" seems like a type of hell.
Just this summer I went to concerts in 3 different countries.

I also want to make games and music. Open source everything after 5 years. Honest games you buy once and self host forever.

Haha, look at the old B+W Perry Mason TV episodes. He drives all kinds of different cars. Those cars were definitely product placements.
Could you give any hint about the title/authors/year of this report that would allow me to find it?
I would be very interested to read the report too.

It might be this one Yellow Economy[1]. But I'm not 100% sure.

[1] https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/yellow_economy_14_...

Chat apps are cutting a slice into the supply side directly.
There is infinite demand for content (to the limit that human attention can absorb it).

Most content sucks ass. What may appear to be bountiful content is actually a lot of okay and meh content. Very little of it fits to your actual taste preference. It's a whole lot of mediocre. We as humans do not know what plentiful content looks like. We've never lived in it.

Most movies suck. You doomscroll and are dissatisfied. You refresh your media recommendations and sigh. You are excited to see a new fantasy or sci-fi film that scratches that itch, yet often left disappointed.

We are still in a desert. Anyone who says otherwise is settling for the status quo that our childen will call primitive and beastly.

Jobs are disappearing because cheap/free ad subsidized content attracts more eyeball hours than produced and prestige content. It's the optimal pareto frontier of content and does the most bang for buck, most in aggregate eyeball hours.

When the tools enable more creation at scale by tasteful creators, we'll start to get closer to content abundance. We're not there yet.

> When the tools enable more creation at scale by tasteful creators, we'll start to get closer to content abundance. We're not there yet.

This reminds me of the comparison between Japanese manga and American comics/graphic novels. Some people say the former offer a much wider variety of content and ideas because it is often started by a single (often quirky) author, whereas the latter is usually designed by a committee, which ends up favoring more bland ideas. Anime usually starts of as manga, and that's why anime is so creative as well.

Perhaps AI will help single authors create more work by themselves, and we'll have a renaissance of comic books and other forms of (mostly digital) entertainment in the west. And we'll spend less time watching those TV shows on streaming platforms that follow the same few recipes.

I would argue manga and anime no longer really have that kind of diversity in ideas anymore. Things have calcified in the last fifteen years or so as the community has become more insular. It used to be in the past that authors took ideas from their other hobbies, be that mechanics or history or love for classic films. But since about 2011 many manga and anime base their ideas off of other manga, anime, or books that heavily pull from manga and videogames.

There were trends in the past like the magical girl trend, giant robot trend, space opera trend, and high fantasy trend, but those always pulled from things like Japanese women's rejection of staid maturity, Japan's manufacturing boom and the rise of complex electronics, Star Wars and the exocolonization hype of the late 1970s, and Dungeons & Dragons and Wizardry. There was always something new outside of the sphere that got integrated into it. Nowadays many manga are copies of copies, where the things they're copying pulled from games like Tera Online, Xenoblade Chronicles, or Dragon Quest, and from landmark '90s manga and anime like Yu Yu Hakusho, Record Of Lodoss War, and Tenchi Muyo. Especially in the last seven or so years these properties are so many layers removed because of the copying that they don't know why certain plot tropes or character archetypes exist and thus don't know how to use them (or more importantly subvert them).

Sturgeon's Law obviously applies, but currently many of the best examples of ongoing manga and anime lie within a fraction of the diversity that used to exist. Comparing 2024-2026 to 2004-2006 (which was considered a dark age in anime and manga at the time) provides a pretty stark example. The same thing happened with American comics in the 1990s and 2000s before the indie comics boom following Diamond Distribution's years long fight with the industry. While kids don't have a reference for what's good or not because they don't have a back catalogue of experience to compare to, adults absolutely do. And adults are the ones that drive a majority of sales considering the anime boom started in the mid 1990s. They won't read or watch something that repeats a well worn premise but worse. So we might be about to see a collapse of manga as the snake reaches the end of eating it's own tail.

We are getting hammered by a massive increase in generation of content, and no change in our ability to consume content.

Understanding is a combination of consumption and reflection. There is simply not enough time to do so. This is driving a push towards content that is so simple to consume that it takes no effort.

> We are getting hammered by a massive increase in generation of content, and no change in our ability to consume content.

There is a bit of a parallel here to what LLMs have done to software. They have sped up the act of writing the code, but have done little for everything on either side of the code writing.

> There is infinite demand for content (to the limit that human attention can absorb it).

That limit is called time, which people struggling to get by rarely have. And the "most bang for buck, most in aggregate eyeball hours" is an extraordinarily mono-dimensional take on media and film.

> which people struggling to get by rarely have

The hate for technological advances is so strong that we're wanting... Entertainment austerity for poor people?

Oh my God.

This community needs more hope.

> extraordinarily mono-dimensional take on media and film.

You're telling this to someone who is Meisner-trained, who acts and performs, who has directed, shot lots of films, and who is heavily involved in the arts. A24 is my jam, and even that's not enough to sate me.

I sincerely hope this isn't a performance.

I want better. Both as a consumer and creator in the arts.

> We are still in a desert.

It isn't exactly a desert? It is more like a full buffet, but nothing but cheap, mass-produced sugar literally everywhere. All the 2-star donuts and chocolate cupcakes you can eat, and nothing but that.

A barn full of fodder for cattle would be a more fitting analogy.
I would look to the culture industry in Japan as an alternative to the gatekeeping-industrial complex we call Hollywood.

Hollywood's cost structure makes it impossible to try anything new. I'd contrast that to Japan where creators can write a "web novel", get a contract for a light novel, have a manga made, and then an anime, and maybe even some video games. And these all reinforce each other: last year I discovered an atrociously drawn anime that had got me curious about the source material -- that blew me away and I bought all of the printed materials that have come out so far and expect to buy all the rest.

Not least, Japan still gets new 4-panel comics like Bocci the Rock and The Demon Girl Next Door, something almost unthinkable of in the Land of the Nepo Baby where we haven't had a new one since Dilbert.

{"deleted":true,"id":50227319,"parent":50227122,"time":1792891707,"type":"comment"}
I haven't investigated it much, but I imagine that LLMs have made it easier for japanese culture products to release products in English language. Is industry in Japan taking advantage of nearly free translation for it's print products?
I've heard stories of rather poor translation work since Sony purchased Crunchyroll (a popular AI streaming site) and started using AI for a lot of English subs.

So while AI has potentially made it easier for some Japanese content to reach English-speaking Western audiences, I’m not so sure that it’s doing justice to the original creations.

Note: I’m not suggesting that AI doesn’t have a place in translation work, but it still needs close supervision from bilingual people.

https://www.cbr.com/crunchyroll-chatgpt-sub-anime

> Most movies suck

Most new ones do, but they've been making like a dozen great ones each year for for like 80 years.

Honestly TV (including the back catalogs) are where most of the truly good video content is.

> cheap/free ad subsidized content attracts more eyeball hours than produced and prestige content

This part I really agree with. It's the reason shitty Netflix reality shows are among the most popular 'watercooler discussion' shows today.