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Omarchy development practices lead to predictable security issues

https://blog.happyfellow.dev/merchants-of-insecurity/
I'm somewhat out of the loop, and it's not really mentioned in the article, but what's with Omarchy getting this crazy amount of financial support from this list of fairly prominent individuals? Until a few weeks ago I'd never heard of it, then what I did hear is that it's being made by a very... uhh, eccentric(?) individual, and now it's suddenly got a crazy amount of funding. What am I missing?
It's a political statement disguised as a FOSS project (which itself is fine, all software is political).

The funders are not funding the development of a Linux distro, they are co-signing the political statement.

> which itself is fine, all software is political

I don't mean to get distracted from the topic at hand, but is that really true? If I create my own software stack for the TRMNL display I received as a gift because I think it's fun and interesting, is that a political statement? What politics does that involve? If someone makes a small Rust library that implements some days structure and a few hundred people find it useful, what political stance is intrinsically baked in by the author?

It's exhausting to go through life if you think every field is a battlefield.

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Is it? What's the statement?
That OSS has become too entangled with political activism and ideological gatekeeping, when it should be about making great software, giving people control over their computers, and rediscovering the joy of computing.

I don't think Omarchy is anti-political so much as an attempt to revive the enthusiast/hacker ethos of the OSS community.

"Freedom to compute" cannot be separated from "Freedom to exist" as it explicitly depends on it. The authors of Omarchy pay lip service to the former while taking a stance against the latter.
Fully agreed. I have yet to encounter someone who is claiming something elss and is not privileged enough to just not need to worry about this. Ignorance doesn't reduce the political tech entanglement, it just... ignores it. Which is fine, do whatever. But don't claim it's not related.
> I have yet to encounter someone who is claiming something elss and is not privileged enough to just not need to worry about this

1000x this

People who say they don’t need their rights guaranteed do that because they never realised they were protected their whole lives.

No, it is definitely possible to make great software without inserting messaging on irrelevant issues into it. Whatever the quality of Omarchy, DHH is right about parts of the free software world becoming entangled worth various irrelevant causes.
I feel like ironically their whole thing is doing exactly that, except in the other direction…
I have a feeling the right to exist might be something very relevant to a lot of people.
This equivocation on the word "exist" doesn't work anymore. It's not 2018 anymore. Normal people with common sense understand that keeping politics separate from technology isn't the same thing as existential violence. Nobody, to "exist", needs to make software political.
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Take one glance at history, and you'll see that having a sovereign ethnic homeland is crucial to that "freedom to exist". So you're wrong on both counts - they are also taking a stance for the latter, and the two freedoms can be separated. Distributing FOSS does not require one takes a stance on every ethnic and political conflict on Earth. The GNU manifesto never once talks about the occupation of Tibet. This "cannot be separated" is nothing but a cheap attempt to attach your own cause to some other, more widely accepted cause.
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> Distributing FOSS

FOSS never was about the right of the distributor. It’s been always about protecting the user. The way to do it is to give the users a set of rights that cannot be revoked.

Maybe DHH should live by his own ethos and "shut up and program" rather than continually making divisive political statements that alienate people who might otherwise use and contribute to his distro.
I don’t think he’ll refrain from using the political power he amassed by building a very popular web framework. We gave him a megaphone and a soapbox, and he’ll use it.

We probably should have known better.

> That OSS has become too entangled with political activism

Wait is that really the spin that DHH is pushing? That'd be insane given he's among the most politically active open sources developers put there by a wiiide margin.

Oh, but you see, when it’s their own points of view, it’s never politics.
> Omarchy is...an attempt to revive the enthusiast/hacker ethos of the OSS community.

...By injecting it with big money and pushing more AI slop?

'OSS "became" too entangled with political activism'

Statements dreamed up by people who get gilliganed by a coconut every morning.

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Not sure ignore is the right word here. I think they rather take pride in it.
He's not a "massive racist," but I guess if you repeat it enough of becomes true to you.
The fact that this is up for debate already says all. For anyone passing through, read the blog posts and his social media feeds, make up your own mind.
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> He's not a "massive racist,"

Only in the sense he lacks physical mass.

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I'm very far from it but I saw many exchanges in my twitter timeline (because now when you click on a tweet to read it or interact, the algorithm thinks it's your only interest in life).

Do basically, they got 8 millions dollars of funding, they bragged and criticized others in linux and said some political stuff, they were also criticized by others including political stuff from the other side (not sure of the order). Finally it became viral enough for people looking at the security of the distro and found many issues.

Personally I like my Linux distro like my coffee: competently managed, with a minimum of drama and with having to hear the less assholes possible.

> Personally I like my Linux distro like my coffee: competently managed, with a minimum of drama and with having to hear the less assholes possible.

I've been using Linux since 1993 and at various points every distro under the sun and that perfectly describes exactly zero Linux distributions.

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And which distro is like that?
What collective human endeavour is devoid of politics?

Politics is how groups decide things, from what a code of conduct should be to where we should stop for coffee after lunch. It’s easy to not notice it, but we do politics dozens of times every day.

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It's quite a loud one, but it's broadcast above 25KHz or so
wut? haha
Beyond human hearing for a whistle but within the frequency a dog can hear a whistle, i.e. a slightly tongue in cheek way to call it a dog whistle.
Just to explain because not everyone is necessarily a native English speaker or gets the reference.

This is a reference to a dog whistle. Above 25kHz are sounds that dogs can hear but humans generally can't.

The term dog whistle is used to refer to phrases that racists use to indicate their racism, while sounding plausibly deniable. The idea is that it's a phrase that will make other racists realize that you are one of them, while not sounding openly racist to others.

DHH himself has gone beyond dog whistles. He's directly compared what he considers undesirable ehtnic populations to wolves who need to be shot. He's just openly calling for ethnic cleansing by now.

But support for Omarchy itself can be seen as a dog whistle. It's widely known that DHH is a fascist, but you have some plausible deniability by donating to Omarchy because you're just politically neutral and think it's cool tech, or something like that.

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Yes that is one part of how dog whistles work. Disguise it well enough to get rubes to run interference for you. You’re doing that very well.
"Linux has been infected by le woke mob and we're making it Great Again"
Ugh, gosh really? I looked at one of the videos of the... eh excentric developer of the distro where he was presenting 4.0 and I was wondering about that retro neon design of background images he seemed to adore so much. I was wondering why someone would still think this Fashwave design to be cool. It's been what? 10 years when this trope peaked?
Of course it differs by the individual. I think there are three camps: Those who have read DHH's blog posts, and agree with them. Those who have read DHH's blog posts, but think "he couldn't possibly mean that". Those who haven't read DHH's blog posts, but know that he's on "their side" (right-leaning).
What about the people who have no idea who DHH is, what he stands for, and have heard about Omarchy for the first time just now and are trying to figure out what it even is and suddenly people are talking in circles about him being eccentric or problematic.
Yeah, this is so annoying.

I switched to Omarchy 4.0 from CachyOS and is having an amazing experience so far, barely know anything about DHH other than that he made Rails, and now everybody is calling me a racist sympathizer.

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You seem to be talking about users. They're talking about creators.

I don't think users know who DHH is, or care who DHH is. Probably like 0.01% of users have read a blog post, let alone a political one. (Maybe they all are, I haven't read any)

Disagree there; anyone who installs Omarchy does it because a social media creator they like suggested it, and there’s only a few degrees of separation between those creators. This isn’t like Slackware’s popularity in the 90s, peer to peer, this all top-down. I’d call it hype-driven, if they didnt have a neat product (which I’m not a customer of).
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It still feels like they are supporting a notorious neofascist.
It's 14 words long.
The author seems in his blog posts to advocate for mass deportation of recent immigrants to Europe.

This is an inflammatory enough position to make any of his output into a de facto political statement.

Just to provide some balance here to readers who have never heard of Omarchy before... this comment is totally cracked.

Yes, DHH has conservative political leanings, but the vast majority of people who have tried out Omarchy either don't know or don't care. The project is in no way consumed by politics. The commenter's brain obviously is, and they are seeing everything through that lens.

HN is better when the discourse doesn't revolve around reactionary political extremism. 99% of the energy going into the distro has always been people who liked to "rice" their Linux (make it look cool). If the project has a "soul" it's that. It's also a classic "hacker" thing to rice out your desktop. It's like the modern version of the demoscene. It's fine. It's cool. Sorry if someone hurt you. Now let's move past the political histrionics.

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> The funders are not funding the development of a Linux distro, they are co-signing the political statement.

It's not even a Linux distro. It's an Arch respin with tweaks that DHH likes.

This is for people who want to work like DHH.

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It wasn’t that long ago that omarchy got started. As far as I could tell it was a direct response to DHH giving up on Apple. He was in a dispute with them in regards to App Store publishing and sales. He seems to have since made it his personal mission to move off of the Apple ecosystem.
I think a better fitting definition of what it is – notably absent from this entire comment section – is virtue, or rather vice, signaling.
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It’s a really strong UX that’s rapidly improving without a profit motive and people are excited about it.

Closest thing to the “it just works” experience that Mac was always known for and it runs great on older hardware. Even goes so far as to optimize the install time down to about 1 minute.

I was running i3 when an Ubuntu update borked my entire setup so I made the switch. The difference is night and day in the level of polish.

Small example, running Zoom on i3 caused a tile cascade every time I turned on my Bluetooth headset because Zoom bypassed the main notification system. Issue resolved here.

One of many little quirks that no longer happen.

It’s nice to see excitement around Linux because nothing from the big names was really creating it.

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I'm surprised HN failed to mention the real reason in this thread. It's AI. The goal of the project is to have users build (fix, maintain, expand etc) the distro themselves through AI generated (bug) reports which are then picked up by AI, solved, tested and published in a new release. A full AI loop.

AI sells, this should be obvious by now. The guy behind the project talks about this in more detail, for instance during the interview he recently did with Network Chuck on youtube.

Looks like nothing. It's arch with a bunch of pre installed apps and a few goodies on top.

My guess is relationships and fame went a long way towards getting those funds.

omarchy is the new "i use arch, btw". I'm too altruistic (or dumb) to understand why you would pump money into a riced arch install.

In some way I feel people just try to buy into "street cred" on the other hand omarchy could be a great launchpad for a distro that is customizable, easy enough to use and may provide a great MDM solution at some point.

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The promise of the so-called ‘malleable computer’:

a machine whose hardware parts you could change, as well as bigger chunks of its software, above and beyond end-user apps. That is possible via the integration of the OS with AI agents that do the heavy lifting for you in adapting the OS to your ‘needs.’ Users of the Pi coding agent get a better feeling for this because the tool is, by design, built to respond and adapt to user-commanded changes. This is the kind of capability the typical user won’t see in private-source OSes like Windows and iOS, especially because they have security as a concern (thus the OP’s motivation for the heads-up on security in Omarchy).

it's amazing from a historical perspective that there are HNers around now who don't know who DHH is, when he was such a prevailing voice in the HN scene back in the day.

He is the author of rails and there are so many founders who were inspired by 37 signals and their takes on things back in the day.

The golden years of HN.

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A highly motivated, well funded and hence potentially contagious and "blessed" effort in proliferation ... and colonization.
Just billionaires giving money to a friend's project.
DHH effect. He has a very strong following, and there's a certain amount of trust/prestige attached to his name in the tech/startup world. For a lot of these people, DHH building something is probably enough to get them interested and willing to throw money at it.
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It's being largely driven by DHH (creator of Rails, and co-founder of 37signals). He has a massive following and a lot of influence (and money).
Been hearing about Omarchy for a while (past half a year if not more), but pretty much exclusively on LinkedIn. I don't remember if I follow DHH but I suppose enough of my connections do either way that I often get recommended posts about Omarchy. But I barely hear about it on reddit and I probably saw it mentioned a couple times here on HN
It's a shame because DHH seems to be going fully agentic (or at least that's his public stance), so no idea why he isn't rolling a proper distro. Looking at his repo it's just pure shell scripts (why?) and using prebuilt software. He could have rolled a custom renderer + pipeline + other software needed to make a distro work (ie a modern KDE).
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Just like anything in tech recently, make a halo effect around whatever, over sell it, try to make a fanbase, and some connections here and there, and you got your meme product into a multi million product. It’s sad, there are dozens of better distributions out there and been in the game for years that deserve more exposure, but oh well.
isn't it a typical SV investor money hype train situation:

- project overpromise to a point of absurdity (e.g. Tesla (still has questionable full self driving), SpaceX (in recent times there had been absurd differences between claimed rocket load and what we then find out the rocket actually could load, like 100 Tons being only 15 Tons IRL level of differences), etc. etc.)

- project jumps on some hype train (e.g. AI)

- project has some eccentric owner which is good at selling it, even if it doesn't do what is sold

- owner also goes with the "move fast break things"

- owner acts widely (likely actually criminally) negligent in "safety" topics, shipping something is more important then the damage the negligence will causes, in some such such cases even if it's close to guaranteed that the negligence will kill people. Another way to phrase this point is they follow the "move at ANY cost so fast that competition can't keep up until you win by default" motto.

- owner has some "Vitamine B" connections to rich risk friendly investors (aka. the "friends help friends", "cartel-like", "kinda looks like corruption" structures we have been seen from time to time in the background of SV-related startup investments)

So I don't think you are missing anything about Omarchy, it's more like the whole investor culture around SV is severely broken, unhealthy and in their recklessness IMHO more damaging to society then its helpful. Not speaking about how this background structures twist the founding/startup marked in a way which may look to the outside to be "fair and open" but in fact isn't, if you don't "bow" to the right people and their ideology you aren't getting anywhere.

1. To help linux take over desktop (vs macOS and windows)

2. As an apolitical refuge, since contributors like DHH and Tobi Lütke [along with possibly the silent majority], want to focus on commonalities (love of hacking and computing) rather than the things that drive us apart (political views)

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That the future is (by some) considered to be about “personal branding” rather than actual engineering. Build a cult of followers and ship them whatever.

This is the main difference between sharing one’s cool config files and shipping a “distro”.

It's AI and dev forward in a brilliant way. It ships with its own skill [1], so agents actually work way better out of the box than on other distros.

Something crashes? Click the notification and your agent solves the bug.

It also has a very standardized UI library and a good plugin system.

Due to those things the list of plugins is increasing by hundreds a day [2], I made one that adds Exposé like for macOS myself a few days ago.

Most of them are actually good, and unlike other distros they look visually consistent. Customizing your system and participating in the community has never been this easy. Incredibly fun, feels like being a kid in a candyshop.

[1] https://github.com/basecamp/omarchy/blob/quattro/default/age...

[2] https://omarchyplugins.com/

It's apple-centric tech bros discovering linux. If apple gets their shit together on the OS again, they'll be back in an instant. Until then, it's probably a good thing for the linux desktop overall.
A techbros project that really cares close to nothing about FOSS ideals, apparently sided with far right politics.
It is going to be marketed to the AI bros. Possibly to Shopify customers as an "advanced AI distro" to create shops with. The openclaw guy just sponsored Omarchy.

It's a vibe coding distro, so of course there is no security to begin with.

DHH is also on the Slopify board, so AI is mandatory.

rich guy has rich friends, cult of personality
DHH is a massive racist who thinks immigrants are diluting the national character of the UK. DHH himself is danish and hasn’t been to the UK in like 10 years. Maybe he should look in the mirror sometime
Just DHH being loud about it, getting his billionaire friends to join, and their usual tech-bro following astroturfing it (they somehow see it as a culture war thing to fight against the oppression from other distros and FLOSS projects that have code of conducts and don’t want to work with racists)
it get picked up by Hype because DHH
I think there is a pretty decent swath of people willing to rally behind someone who says they are trying to make a cool project specifically for people who want to be away from the "insufferable injection of identity politics". How large that swath is relative to the other is up for debate but it doesn't have to be particularly large. You'll get funding from people who are both interested in the actual product AND the posture, some from people who are just into the posture, and some who are just into the product. Ditto with interest from people to try it and or contribute time to it's development.
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