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antisthenes | on: Bored of eating your own dogfood? Try smelling your own farts
The short of it is: no one gives a shit about anything but their own paycheck and getting off of work at 5pm.

It's the human condition (and also in part the companies' own fault since they stopped investing in employees)

The people who give a shit and are passionate eventually join the other 99.9%, because it's absolutely exhausting pulling the cart with 10 freeloaders on it who don't care.

I envy the people who can give a shit for longer than 2-3 years at any given job. I suppose being your own boss is one of the few ways to stay passionate and care about something for a long enough period of time.

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apexalpha | parent | next
I do!

I border collied these people into a room and the issue is now fixed.

The system still sucks but 2000 field engineers got 10 min of their days back.

A few weeks later the Scrum Master of the PWA team gave an inspiring talk about it at a conference.

Personally you couldn't torture out of me that my app was so bad for so long, but yeah.

antisthenes | root | parent | next
Interesting...I happen to have a border collie and their ability to get things done their way simply by looking at humans is...uncanny.

I will have to think of things like this where can save 5-10 min on something program-wide.

hluska | root | parent
You border collied them? I’ve noticed a real turn towards aggressive disrespect in this community. It’s really gross and it doesn’t make you look smart. They’re humans have some respect and don’t be so toxic. You don’t have to dehumanize your coworkers. This is basic.
dxdm | root | parent | next
I see a fun metaphor for doing the tedious work of arranging a meeting, getting people to join, and getting a solution. Reading it put this way made my day a little brighter. I needed that, too.

Btw, border collies are awesome dogs, and sheep are also awesome. I find no automatic disrespect in using them as stand-ins for our human foibles; intent matters.

GP, please don't be discouraged.

tonyarkles | root | parent | next
One of my first real experiences with Border Collies was at a family reunion. There were a bunch of kids running around playing in the park. At one point someone showed up with a border collie and I watched with delight and amazement as the dog did the herding thing and slowly and carefully pushed the group of children closer together. The kids didn't even realize it until they were way too close to each other to comfortably play tag. The owner called the dog back and the games continued.

Later on I ended up with a sheltie with a very strong herding instinct. She mostly just acted like the Fun Police though with the other dog and cats. Lovely creatures!

Herding sheep is such an interesting experience too. The best way I can describe it is that each sheep has a really large soap bubble around them. You need to push gently on the bubble to get them to go where you want them too. If you push too hard and the bubble pops, they'll scatter and you have to step back and let the bubble reform.

dpark | root | parent
Imagine the pearl clutching if he’d used the “herding cats” metaphor.
losvedir | root | parent | next
Not much a fan of metaphor? I personally appreciated the way they described about getting (corralling? shepherding? herding? Lots of common animal husbandry expressions in English) all the relevant humans together.
primitivesuave | root | parent | next
English is full of animal-based metaphors, and that's a pretty innocuous statement. "I herded everyone into a room" does not automatically imply that one perceives those people as animals.
testaccount28 | root | parent | next
in this analogy, it is OP who is the dog.
jrockway | root | parent
I think the choice of breed has meaning. The border collie is the smartest breed of dog, and its origin is in herding sheep. Calling your coworkers sheep isn't particularly nice. Calling yourself the smartest breed of dog isn't particularly humble. That's why the person you're replying to objects.
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nocman | root | parent | next
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the word picture that was used. I'd advise against assuming the worst possible interpretation of someone else's words (especially online). Most of us probably do that at least sometimes (present company included), but it would be much better to give people the benefit of the doubt. In this case, I think it is fair to assume that the original poster was just saying that he wouldn't let them try to get away and not actually deal with the problem -- much as a border collie prevents other animals from straying from the group, keeping them where they need to be.

There is no need to assume that they meant that the others in the meeting were less important or less intelligent, or whatever. They were, perhaps, just less interested in dealing with the problem.

apexalpha | root | parent | next
'corralled' better for you?

And yeah I did that. It wasn't even my app. Or my team. Or my field engineers.

I was just fucking ashamed of our entire IT department and thus took it upon me to fix this.

It was the first time the PM had ever spoken to a field engineer, I think.

ornornor | root | parent
I guess we’ve worked at different places.
bix6 | parent | next
> I suppose being your own boss is one of the few ways to stay passionate and care about something for a long enough period of time.

I run a business and the passion is still hard to maintain. On Friday one of my customers cussed me out for 20 mins because I took a few hours to respond. That was a tough way to start the weekend.

CalChris | parent | next
It’s a problem of motivation. Now, if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime. So where's the motivation? And here's another thing, Bob. I have eight different bosses right now!
deaux | parent | next
Believe it or not, there exist places where 50% or more give a shit.

I'm sure at Apple under Jobs, the % would've been very high. It will have dropped significantly by now.

You're absolutely right on a country-scale though.

anal_reactor | parent
It gets worse. In my company the least competent people care the most.