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Eliminating some student debt is a fish. Free university is the fishing rod. Do that instead.
we are vastly overspending and will either need to monetize the debt (disastrous) or massively cut spending and raise taxes in the future. already now, we need to massively raise taxes on the wealthy but even that will be insufficient with our current spend.

free college is just a giveaway to the wealthier third of our society and irresponsible with our current fiscal situation.

> free college is just a giveaway to the wealthier third of our society and irresponsible with our current fiscal situation.

How is free college a giveaway to the wealthier third of society? For starters, I can assure you the wealthy care a lot about the name of the institution issuing the diploma, and they can afford it. They'll happily front extra cash so their kids can network with people of similar economic status.

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Good point. Then next best is limit the lending. If a uni wants to charge 50k a year then they need to find rich students who can pay cash. If they want the smartest students they need to find ways to be affordable. Only lend money for affordable universities basically. That will force efficiency, reduce admin etc.
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Or we could just spend less on weapons.
Free to the student sounds nice, but who pays for it in the end? And does an education lose a bit of its value when anyone can get it for free?
The pretending to not understand how public services work shtick is so tiring.

Everyone understands that public services are free to use because they are funded by taxes. It's not the gotcha you think it is. People say that roads, K-12 education, etc are "free" when they mean there is not a direct fee to use them because they are paid for by the government using tax dollars. You don't have to pretend to not understand this

Who says roads or public education are free? Every gallon of fuel is taxed and, at least in any jurisdiction I've lived in, property taxes fund schools.

I'm not pretending to not understand here. Someone said it would be free and I'm asking how. The fact that "free" doesn't mean free is the problem, not an issue of me misunderstanding.

Your mind works in a very different way than mine.

Elsewhere, you worried that getting millions of people put of crippling debt due to a broken education finance system might tick up inflation.

Here, you worry that making society more educated via university training might decrease the economic value of a degree.

Where is the humanity? Of course some extreme of inflation is bad, and of course we want people to be employable. But artificial scarcity seems like a bad way to go about it.

(And I don't think we have a surplus of engineers in the country, judging by what I perceive to be the gap in talent between china and US, and the moaning by tech about the need for H1B).

> Elsewhere, you worried that getting millions of people put of crippling debt due to a broken education finance system might tick up inflation.

Well yes, I can talk to two different points when the context is different. A good conversation isn't just people shouting their personal opinions, its people playing off of the discussion at hand and considering different angles.

> Here, you worry that making society more educated via university training might decrease the economic value of a degree.

That's actually not what I was saying, I may have phrased it poorly. I did not mean that I worry about anyone getting educated. I was simply trying to point out that a degree has much less value when anyone can get it, like that's because it is free as is the topic here.

In the other thread I wasn't actually concerned about inflation personally, only pointing out that inflation will go up if a large amount of student debt is made to just disappear. I was raising that as a prediction with high likelihood, personally I have opinions on the underlying approach but I don't really have dog in the fight either.

>And I don't think we have a surplus of engineers in the country, judging by what I perceive to be the gap in talent between china and US, and the moaning by tech about the need for H1B

Why take that at face value? Its generally used for wage suppression[0][1] by big companies (not only in tech) and due to how its structured, creates an unhealthy power balance between employers and H1B employees

[0]: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10551-024-05823-8

[1]: https://www.paularnesen.com/blog/the-h-1b-visa-corporate-ame...

The MAGA ideals (this is not snark just applying logic) needs more skilled Americans so this would also be aligned with MAGA albeit one of those things that takes more than 4 years to come to fruition so politically harder to do.
(Follow-up from my other reply)

> But artificial scarcity seems like a bad way to go about it.

What artificial scarcity are you talking about here?

I'm not trying to say we need artificial scarcity, university should be a market like any other product or service.

Personally I tend to go even further away from most when it comes to scarcity in the job market too - I'd rather have open borders than immigration systems that limit how many people can come here and compete for jobs.

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Not anyone. Some kind of test is required for admission. I am thinking like the UK system.

Also if you are being $ focused then offer it where there is ROI: STEM, medicine (allow more doctors too).

Education doesn't lose its value if it is free. Does food and water? Shelter?

Unless people are just tuning out of their degree and it is just a social thing. In which deal with that specific problem.

How does no one pay for it, though?

I don't know the ins and outs of the UK education system, but I have to assume the facilities and employees are still paid for.

> Does food and water? Shelter?

If everyone had access to it for free? Absolutely! I wouldn't work as a farmer or build houses if no one had to pay for those products. Value, or price in this context, is only really feasible for scarce assets. If something is seemingly unlimited and freely available it will have no (financial) value.

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Educated people get better paying jobs. More pay means more payed taxes as well. If you have a smart tax system with progressive tax, that's a real lever.

It sounds counter intuitive, but more taxes is more fair and better as a whole. To prove, it takes no more than to look up correlation of amounts of taxes with percentages of homelessness (and other such indicators) between western countries.

Free to US citizens would be a better policy, the state investing in its own people.
Granted! Now US universities consist of 99% immigrants/people on student visas.

As long as you let universities act like for-profit businesses, their profits will be the only thing they optimize for.

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May be an unpopular opinion here, but education should be a market just like anything else and the government should put its thumb on the scales as infrequently as possible.
That's one of the most uneducated ignorant things I've heard anyone say in this entire discussion.

Does health insurance also lose its value when anyone can get it for free?

Health insurance is an entirely different animal. It has its own flaws and issues, as well as its own benefits. You can't easily compare a service product and an insurance product, they're just too different.

Though yes, financially health insurance also has no monetary value when anyone can get it for free. You can't assign a price to it and anyone in the health insurance business is entirely at the whims of what the government is willing to pay them to provide a service deemed essential enough to subsidize the entire cost of the product.

Free does not mean limitless. Where I live in EU its not uncommon to wait for over a year to see a doctor on „free” insurance and less than 24h when you pay out of your pocket.

People get free insurance but hospitals get fixed amounts of cash allowing them to admit fixed amount of patients

In this scenario the answer is yes, it loses some value. Still much better system than private care in US

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If everyone has a Harvard degree, the value of a Harvard degree loses value, yes.
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