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architango | on: TikTok goes dark in the US
US social media companies have been banned in China for many years, so in fact the “brainwashing” you’re referring to has only gone in one direction until now.
blisterpeanuts | parent | next
You raise an important point. Why should a Chinese company be allowed to operate freely in the U.S. when U.S. companies offering similar services are totally banned in China? Doesn’t this violate the principles of free trade and frameworks to which the two countries have agreed?

I’m not concerned so much about TikTok as spyware or data gathering or a vector for influencing young minds… though it is all of that, to some extent.

The real problem is the one sided nature of the U.S.-China trade relationship.

roenxi | root | parent | next
I do think that the TikTok ban is being taken too lightly by the people of US. But the more interesting point is that your logic implies that China making a sensible move in banning US companies. There is a real question of why companies like Google are allowed to operate outside the US - if it is this big a deal to the US politicians it suggests their military has been using it aggressively against opponents with some success.
ternnoburn | root | parent
"Why would an adult not hit someone when that someone hits them?"

Some people believe that not retaliating stops cycles and systems. Some of us have principles beyond the very childlike, "well, they did it first".

If you believe state censorship is bad, you should oppose it when it is deployed, even if it's deployed against someone you think is also bad.

Like, I think using slurs is bad. I oppose using slurs, even against people I loathe. I have a principal, and I do not violate that principle even if it would hurt people I would consider my opponents.

Same here. My commitment to my principal that "state censorship is bad" far outweighs any feelings about China.

mdale | root | parent
Sure; but negotiations involve a give and take. You can't push things in the a direction if you just tout your purity and one side gives in and gets rolled over.

I think some progress was made getting TikTok on US servers and the US hires etc. Maybe more transparency in how the company operated or observers within could have been good next steps. Maybe some mutual concession with some version of US media operating within China.

Ideally finding benefit to nation states competition benefits global citizens in some way such as the green race transition to renewables is good ... Can we have privacy and democratic media race somehow? ... Maybe not possible :)

ciselybaldwic | parent
They are probably scared their productivity rate will go down or their birthrate. They definitely know something we don't.
johnny22 | root | parent
if you were paying attention you'd know their birthrates have been plunging for years even after the revocation of the one child policy.
saturn8601 | root | parent
Its the only saving grace the US has against China. Without it, an argument can be made that the game is already over and the US has lost.
Sabinus | root | parent
Stiff systems like whatever version of Communism the Chinese have now, with Emperor for Life Xi don't do as well with changing circumstances and the buildup their own internal contradictions as well as the flexible democracies so there is more than just China's demographic collapse in the equation.
saturn8601 | root | parent
Good point but it remains to be seen. China has seemed to look at the Soviets and 'improved' upon their design. At the same time the West has dove deeper into their downsides (corruption) with no improvement in sight. Does China really need to last forever or do they just need to outlast their rival?