Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit
heresoiiixdgy | on: TikTok goes dark in the US
God forbid the rest of the world stops wearing jeans, stops drinking coke and has declining divorce rates. They can't have TikTok at all costs. That will show em. We can't have them get brainwashed by others, we already have a monopoly on that. We need to keep it.
arrobbiato | parent | next
US social media companies have been banned in China for many years, so in fact the “brainwashing” you’re referring to has only gone in one direction until now.
blisterpeanuts | root | parent | next
You raise an important point. Why should a Chinese company be allowed to operate freely in the U.S. when U.S. companies offering similar services are totally banned in China? Doesn’t this violate the principles of free trade and frameworks to which the two countries have agreed?

I’m not concerned so much about TikTok as spyware or data gathering or a vector for influencing young minds… though it is all of that, to some extent.

The real problem is the one sided nature of the U.S.-China trade relationship.

roenxi | root | parent | next
I do think that the TikTok ban is being taken too lightly by the people of US. But the more interesting point is that your logic implies that China making a sensible move in banning US companies. There is a real question of why companies like Google are allowed to operate outside the US - if it is this big a deal to the US politicians it suggests their military has been using it aggressively against opponents with some success.
ternnoburn | root | parent
"Why would an adult not hit someone when that someone hits them?"

Some people believe that not retaliating stops cycles and systems. Some of us have principles beyond the very childlike, "well, they did it first".

If you believe state censorship is bad, you should oppose it when it is deployed, even if it's deployed against someone you think is also bad.

Like, I think using slurs is bad. I oppose using slurs, even against people I loathe. I have a principal, and I do not violate that principle even if it would hurt people I would consider my opponents.

Same here. My commitment to my principal that "state censorship is bad" far outweighs any feelings about China.

mdale | root | parent
Sure; but negotiations involve a give and take. You can't push things in the a direction if you just tout your purity and one side gives in and gets rolled over.

I think some progress was made getting TikTok on US servers and the US hires etc. Maybe more transparency in how the company operated or observers within could have been good next steps. Maybe some mutual concession with some version of US media operating within China.

Ideally finding benefit to nation states competition benefits global citizens in some way such as the green race transition to renewables is good ... Can we have privacy and democratic media race somehow? ... Maybe not possible :)

ciselybaldwic | root | parent
They are probably scared their productivity rate will go down or their birthrate. They definitely know something we don't.
johnny22 | root | parent
if you were paying attention you'd know their birthrates have been plunging for years even after the revocation of the one child policy.
saturn8601 | root | parent
Its the only saving grace the US has against China. Without it, an argument can be made that the game is already over and the US has lost.
Sabinus | root | parent
Stiff systems like whatever version of Communism the Chinese have now, with Emperor for Life Xi don't do as well with changing circumstances and the buildup their own internal contradictions as well as the flexible democracies so there is more than just China's demographic collapse in the equation.
saturn8601 | root | parent
Good point but it remains to be seen. China has seemed to look at the Soviets and 'improved' upon their design. At the same time the West has dove deeper into their downsides (corruption) with no improvement in sight. Does China really need to last forever or do they just need to outlast their rival?
unethical_ban | parent | next
As they say on reddit, "this but unironically".

I am shocked that so many seem to root for China pointing a mind-control weapon at hundreds of millions of people? The Chinese government wants Europe and the US to fall to them. The good does not outweight the bad, in my opinion.

One doesn't have to support the existence of Instagram and Twitter to definitely not support the Chinese control of TikTok. I think the world would be better without closed-source algorithm-controlled short video feeds.

rtpg | root | parent | next
> The Chinese government wants Europe and the US to fall to them. The good does not outweight the bad, in my opinion.

Do you believe this in your heart? Or how about this: do you believe that Europe wants China to fall? Or that the US wants China to fall?

I feel there’s some uncontroversial stuff like China wanting absolute control over messaging about itself, in the context of avoiding organized resistance in its internal affairs. And it goes to extreme measures to do that.

But (glibly) “we want no criticism to be mentioned of us” does not lead to “we want the US to collapse”! There’s a whole texture to the Chinese position here, one that is different from, say, Russia actually taking more or less direct control of various places during the Cold War.

mdale | root | parent
There is an element global competition no ? Controlling more of global trade is advantageous. It's not that they want others you fail; they just want a bigger pice of the pie.
loading story #42755387
dvngnt_ | root | parent | next
you're right, but blocking the best one isn't going to sit right with consumers. if we just passed comprehensive data laws then i would be in support but one company lobbying another company to remove an app doesn't help us at all
coulddobetteraz | root | parent
[flagged]
Sabinus | root | parent
>Meta, X, Google could not come up with a better TikTok. So now they buy or ban what they can't conquer. Talk about free market.

What makes you think that, it's just an algo and network effects.

>I love the us vs them argument. Because it's baseless. Why don't you stop buying everything that's made in China. Let's see how far you get.

Because that would be harmful to US consumers. Lack of short video entertainment reccomended in a particular way is not very harmful. No microwaves or fridges for a couple of years is.

>Nobody is brainwashing anyone.

Influence operations on social media by nation states and others is a verified and ongoing concern. The US and others have been doing this for decades. If China is not doing it via Tiktok already, they would when the invasion of Taiwan starts.

>Except women the world over getting everything for free because they have holes. Nobody complains about that.

Touch grass please.

tivert | root | parent
>> I love the us vs them argument. Because it's baseless. Why don't you stop buying everything that's made in China. Let's see how far you get.

> Because that would be harmful to US consumers. Lack of short video entertainment reccomended in a particular way is not very harmful. No microwaves or fridges for a couple of years is.

And it wouldn't be a bad thing to "stop buying everything that's made in China," but it's not something anyone can do suddenly. It would require a massive political project on par to the industrialization of China. China makes pretty much everything now (IIRC, they have 30-40% of the world's manufacturing capacity), and that is not a good thing for anyone who is not an authoritarian Chinese communist.

wilg | parent | next
what? china can continue to have cultural exports like every country, it is inevitable, it simply can't own and control tiktok
keepthemensbusy | parent
We need to keep the women on the independent mindfu*k or else the GDP will go down.