Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit
[flagged]
and everybody just pointing out that climate protection cannot be forced onto a population is also framed as a climate change denier. i don't deny climate change. but i don't see why current generations' lifes should be tougher just to help out future generations. there needs to be a healthy balance.
That's what the previous generation said in the 90s. They could afford that choice, because they knew they would likely be dead before climate change started really affecting everyday life. Our generation – those who are not close to retirement – does not have the same luxury. Our future will be tougher anyway, both from the climate change itself and from the efforts to mitigate its effects.
Do you want your children to have a better life than you? They won’t unless we start putting in the work to fix climate change.

As a species we took on some climate debt to improve our standard of living, and we’ve been talking bigger loans every year. Those loans are coming due in the form of larger and more frequent weather-based disasters as well as health problems for millions. If we start paying off the loan more aggressively now, we can help prevent harsher payment plans for the next 50 years.

You don’t pay off a house all at once, but you’ll thank your future self for paying it off earlier rather than later.

i don't have children and i don't care about the future of our species. solution is easy - don't bring children into this world. having said that; life always finds a way and even dire future projections won't be much worse (maybe not even close) to stone ages, dark ages or natives living in a jungle. and they all did well enough and do. that's how it is.
Have you been living under a rock? Our current lives are already tougher because of climate change, and it's only going to get worse. More extreme and more frequent weather events (droughts, floods, heat waves, ...) are already happening.

> I don't see why current generations' lives should be tougher just to help out future generations.

Most people want a good life not only for them but also for their children, and their children's children. I don't have children, but I still want a good life for future generations. Is that not simple basic human decency?

Note that the longer we wait, the more difficult we make it ourselves to change things, and the more tough even our own lives are going to be, even ignoring future generations.

> There needs to be a healthy balance.

Yes. The status quo is not a healthy balance (or arguably any kind of balance).

People with these beliefs tend to largely vote Trump. On the other hand, not every one who votes Trump has these beliefs. You can't just inverse this.
> think a zygote is equivalent to an infant

Missouri and Florida were won by Trump and both passed constitutional amendments to guarantee abortion access.

> think vaccines cause autism

I don't think this is a partisan issue. I've spoken to plenty of liberals who believe similar things. Basically the "crunchy mom" stereotype.

Florida's failed to pass
Thanks, I didn't realize that it needed 60%. It only got ~57%.
But it outperformed Trump in the vote totals, so the point stands.
The road is clear now for the right-wing to ban abortion federally.
He released a video the other day specifically to clarify that he wishes to leave it to the states to decide and that it's not a federal issue.
If republicans take the house and they already have the senate, and he has Scrotus, the first bill banning abortion federally from the House will pass the Senate and end up on his desk. I have no doubt that he will gleefully sign it.
Which is getting way to close to real life Gilead.
[flagged]
> We should never doubt climate change as is presented to us,

Oh god, you're one of them, aren't you?

It's not like there's literally decades of evidence showing climate change to be objective truth...

Sigh.

Great job.

Please understand the "as is presented to us".

I'm not denying climate change as a whole or in absolute, I just want to point out that there's enough evidence to think that the world as we know it won't actually end in 2012 as some studies indicate.

Climate change is a part of Earth's lifecycle. There have been ice ages, and there have been periods like jura, when it was warmer. It's all natural.

What you probably mean is how humans influence this cycle; whether accelerating or delaying it, in effect disrupting it. For that, there's no evidence; however, there are many politician lobbyists (and yes, also scientists taking advantage of juicy grants to deliver what was ordered) going to capitalize on the fear that it might be.

loading story #42060860
loading story #42060892
~99.9% of studies agree on human-caused climate change [0].

We know, with absolute certainty for an undeniable fact, that Exxon's own climate scientists skillfully and accurately predicted climate change as a result of increasing fossil fuel use [1].

And we know that Exxon's response to that was to systematically sow doubt for decades, using tobacco-lobby style FUD tactics.

And yet you want us to err on the side of apocalypse. "What if we create a better world, and it was all for nothing".

You've been conned. I know how difficult it is to show someone they've been made a fool of, and I won't try. In fact, I agree with you that in many cases science ought to be questioned - lobotomies, mockery of germ theory, racism presented as science based, Daszak's infamous Lancet paper, etc.

On climate change though, there's very little to respect on the side of deniers. I would argue that, at this point, denying anthropogenic climate change amounts to treason against life.

0 - https://phys.org/news/2021-10-humans-climate.html

1 - https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/01/harvard-led-a...

Again, I find it very small-minded to imply that I'm a denier because I advocate for questioning what we are told. Furthermore, you are putting words on my mouth which make no sense at all.

People should understand there can be healthy middle grounds, which Parent obviously struggles with.

I don't deny anthropogenic climate change, on the contrary, I'm believe it's real and there's evidence for it.

I am, however, sceptical of how it's being presented and used.

loading story #42062296
[flagged]
loading story #42060284
loading story #42060326
To declare an arbitrary date when a human being starts to be a human being is so hypocritical, its no longer funny. Actually, I would call that ignorant and evil.
> To declare an arbitrary date when a human being starts to be a human being is so hypocritical

How is that avoidable?

200,000 BC, were we still humans? 2 mya? 20?

Or for individuals, why care about a fertilised egg rather than (as per Monty Python) "every sperm is scared"?

No matter what we pick, it's arbitrary.

We're using abortion as birth control, in at least 90% of the cases, if not more. Because we dont want to tell the people involved that they have responsibilities in life, and if they dont want children, they are supposed to keep their legs closed or use some other form of birth control. The motivation is clear, its a convenience. But morally, its absolutely evil. I used to see it differently, but that was for my own convenience. Because I secretly hoped that if I ever accidentally knock a women up, I could avoid my responsibility if she is willing to abort. 20 years later, I realize its my responsibility, and I cant make a doctor kill a human being just because I would like to have an easy life.
loading story #42059821
loading story #42060396
The abortion thing is very much down to opinion.

Also, why is bacteria life on mars but a clump of cells is not life on earth? ;p

There's no winning this. That's why it's actually smart to let the states decide this - that way Trump has no say in it.

> why is bacteria life on mars but a clump of cells is not life on earth

That is conflating life (the ability is eat, shit, reproduce, and the potential to late become sentient) with actual sentient life, which is not correct.

Also, no one is planning to ban antibiotics because bacteria is considered life so we can't do anything to save the host by killing it.

> Also, why is bacteria life on mars but a clump of cells is not life on earth? ;p

Because the bacteria on Mars would plausibly exist on it's own. On a different planet.

A newborn can't exist on its own though. It needs to nurse, has to have someone change its diapers, etc.
loading story #42060515
We could make it not opinion with ease. Make the test:

“Can the fetus survive without the host body?”

That’s a medical question that will slowly move toward not aborting ever. And it solves the medical issues as well. “This fetus is killing the host” always allows for removal, because we can either keep them alive, or it can’t survive.

Then the folks who want more babies to reach term can focus on improving medical technology instead of getting involved with the mess that is people’s love lives.

[flagged]
Huh? Since when is a zygote not alive? It has a cell membrane, contains genetic material, has metabolism, can maintain homeostasis, and can grow. That's pretty much the definition of life.

Do you also think neurons, muscle cells, etc are also not alive?

The abortion debate is not about whether or not the thing that gets removed during abortion is life--I doubt you can find any competent biologist who would say it is not--but rather whether that particular cell or group of cells should be treated different than other cells or groups of cells in your body.

E.g., why should abortion be any different from removing tonsils or from circumcision, both of which also involve the removal and death of living cells from the body?

loading story #42059644
loading story #42059968
loading story #42062048
A zygote is not a life? Is bacteria "a life" for you?

You probably meant "human life".

loading story #42060607
[flagged]
loading story #42061275
I don't care for the abortion topic but that cell comparison is really good.
No it's not. "a [human] life" and "life" are completely different things. For example: a tree
loading story #42060799
I remember reading about college professors who shows a 1 day old zygote or whatever and a skin cell which appear pretty indistinguishable from one another.

Does any reasonable person believe that zygote at that stage is truly equivalent to a human life?

Next up no one should be masturbating because each sperm is potentially the next Mozart or Einstein.

How do you feel about cancer cells?
I know, right? It's not mine. I don't really care for it either (except for the "kill at 9 months" thing), but it's interesting to see the two groups argue about it. Both seem to think they're undoubtedly 100% right, as a fact, etc.

Compromises must be made!

loading story #42062258
loading story #42060065