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Why Oxide Chose Illumos

https://rfd.shared.oxide.computer/rfd/0026
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> Xen: Large and complicated (by dom0) codebase, discarded for KVM by AMZN

  1. Xen Type-1 hypervisor is smaller than KVM/QEMU.
  2. Xen "dom0" = Linux/FreeBSD/OpenSolaris. KVM/bhyve also need host OS.
  3. AMZN KVM-subset: x86 cpu/mem virt, blk/net via Arm Nitro hardware.
  4. bhyve is Type-2.
  5. Xen has Type-2 (uXen).
  6. Xen dom0/host can be disaggregated (Hyperlaunch), unlike KVM.
  7. pKVM (Arm/Android) is smaller than KVM/Xen.
> The Service Management Facility (SMF) is responsible for the supervision of services under illumos.. a [Linux] robust infrastructure product would likely end up using few if any of the components provided by the systemd project, despite there now being something like a hundred of them. Instead, more traditional components would need to be revived, or thoroughly bespoke software would need to be developed, in order to avoid the technological and political issues with this increasingly dominant force in the Linux ecosystem.

Is this an argument for Illumos over Linux, or for translating SMF to Linux?

> Is this an argument for Illumos over Linux, or for translating SMF to Linux?

I'd certainly like that! I had spent some time working with Solaris a lifetime ago, and ran a good amount of SmartOS infrastructure slightly more recently. I really enjoyed working with SMF. I really do not enjoy working with the systemd sprawl.

I will note the distinction between type-1/type-2 hypervisors never really made sense, and makes even less sense today. http://blog.codemonkey.ws/2007/10/myth-of-type-i-and-type-ii...

I've been using xen in production for at least 18 years, and although there is been some development, it is extremely hard to get actual documentation on how to do things with it.

There is no place documenting how to integrate the Dom0less/Hyperlaunch in a distribution or how to build infrastructure with it, at best you will find a github repo, with the last commit dated 4 years ago, with little to no information on what to do with the code.

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Talking about "technological and political issues" without mentioning any, or without mentioning which components would need to be revived, sounds a lot like FUD unfortunately. Mixing and matching traditional and systemd components is super common, for example Fedora and RHEL use chrony instead of timesyncd, and NetworkManager instead of networkd.
> Talking about "technological and political issues" without mentioning any

I don't know why you think none were mentioned - to name one, they link a GitHub issue created against the systemd repository by a Googler complaining that systemd is inappropriately using Google's NTP servers, which at the time were not a public service, and kindly asking for systemd to stop using them.

This request was refused and the issue was closed and locked.

Behaviour like this from the systemd maintainers can only appear bizarre, childish, and unreasonable to any unprejudiced observer, putting their character and integrity into question and casting doubt on whether they should be trusted with the maintenance of software so integral to at least a reasonably large minority of modern Linux systems.

And people forget that this behavior of systemd devs is present in lots of other core projects of the Linux ecosystem.

Unfortunately this makes modern Linux not reliable.

systemd made time servers a compile-time option and a warn if distros are using the default time servers:

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/554

What's your suggested alternative?

Using pool.ntp.org requires a vendor zone. systemd does not consider itself a vendor, it's the distros shipping systemd which are the vendor and should register and use their own vendor zone.

I don't care about systemd either way, but your own false representation of facts makes your last paragraph apply to your "argument".

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The Oxide folks are rather vocal about their distaste for the Linux Foundation. FWIW I think they went with the right choice for them considering they'd rather sign up for maintaining the entire thing themselves than saddling themselves with the baggage of a Linux fork or upstreaming
I read it as "we can sit in this more quiet room where people don't rave about systemd all day long".
But do they? Oxide targets the enterprise, and people there don't care that much about how the underlying OS works. It's been ten years since a RHEL release started using systemd and there has been no exodus to either Windows or Illumos.

I don't mean FUD in a disparaging sense, more like literal fear of the unknown causing people to be excessively cautious. I wouldn't have any problem with Oxide saying "we went for what we know best", there's no need to fake that so much more research went into a decision.

The underlying hyperwiser on oxide isn't exposed to the consumers of the API. Just like on Amazon.

I think arguably the bhyve over KVM was the more fundamental reason, and bhyve doesn't run on linux anyway.

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Instead people rave about Solaris.
Honestly, SMF is superior to SystemD and it’s ironic it came earlier (and, that shows based on the fact that it uses XML as its configuration language.. ick).

However, two things are an issue:

1) The CDDL license of SMF makes it difficult to use, or at least that’s what I was told when I asked someone why SMF wasn’t ported to Linux in 2009.

2) SystemD is it now. It’s too complicated to replace and software has become hopelessly dependent on its existence, which is what I mentioned was my largest worry with a monoculture and I was routinely dismissed.

So, to answer your question. The argument must be: IllumOS over Linux.

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Point 1.1 about QEMU seems even less relevant today, with QEMU adding support for the microvm machines, hence greatly reducing the amount of exposed code. And as bonzini said in the thread, the recent vulnerability track record is not so bad.
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