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Crazy that this is not fair use but ai is.
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As much as I love the Internet Archive, is it really that crazy? The four factors used for determining fair use are:

  * the purpose and character of the use
  * the nature of the copyrighted work;
  * the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
  * the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
In the Internet Archive case, they're distributing whole, unmodified copies of copyrighted works which will of course compete with those original works.

In the AI use case, they're typically aiming not to output any significant part of the training data. So they could well argue that the use is transformative, reproducing only minimal parts of the original work and not competing in the market with the original work.

To me, the point isn’t that what the IA was doing was fair use, but that what LLMs are doing arguably is not.

> In the AI use case, they're typically aiming not to output any significant part of the training data

What they’ve aimed to do and what they’ve done are two different things. Models absolutely have produced output that closely mirrors data they were trained on.

> not competing in the market with the original work

This seems like a stretch, if only because I already see how much LLMs have changed my own behavior.

These models exist because of that data, and directly compete by making it unnecessary to seek out the original information to begin with.

But look at your own argument. LLMs are not fair use because they might be prompted into regurgitating something substantially similar to the trained data.

And yet, the IA is 100% aiming to absolutely reproduce literally every part of the work in a 100% complete manner that replaces the original use of the work.

And you cannot bring yourself to admit that the IA is wrong. When you get to that point you have to admit to yourself that you're not making an argument your pushing a dogma.

I’m not arguing that the IA is right or wrong here.

The point more generally is that there’s an asymmetry in how people are thinking about these issues, and to highlight that asymmetry.

If it turns out after various lawsuits shake out that LLMs as they currently exist are actually entirely legal, there’s a case to be made that the criteria for establishing fair use is quite broken. In a world where the IA gets in legal trouble for interpreting existing rules too broadly, it seems entirely unjust that LLM companies would get off scott free for doing something arguably far worse from some perspectives.

IA was lending a digital copies (only one user at a time may read the book), it was acting like a library lending out physical books, only IA did it over the Internet which is more convenient. IA is non-profit.

What publishers argue is that you cannot treat digital books like physical ones; i.e. you cannot re-sell or lend (like IA did) a digital book.

What LLM do is that they use copyrighted content for profit and do not lend anything.

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> and not competing in the market with the original work

AI absolutely competes in the market with the original works it trains on, and with new works in those same markets. Proponents of unrestricted AI training loudly tout and celebrate that it does so.

Which would be fine, if everyone else had the same rights to completely ignore copyright. The asymmetry here seems critically broken.

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Dare I say "Follow the money"?
Lending books to students doesn't make Red Line go up.
I wonder how legit it would be to have an AI scan over the copy, re-write it (as minimally as possible) in its own words, and then just distribute that.

Probably not all that legit, but arguably thats where we're headed anyway :/

The challenge (afaik) is that "as minimally as possible" is very much a gray line, and that line can be make weaker depending on the volume of material.
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