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HN is probably over-indexed on people living in high-density cities, which might explain why tech like this and also things like vertical farming are popular here. However there's almost no dimensional constraint for farmland in the United States. We have vast amounts of it and there's really nothing to be gained from "stacking"

Often these "solutions" introduce more problems than they solve. One example being a solar farm designed to be grazed by sheep where the panels are so low to the ground that farmers can't bring in tractors and cut hay when the ruminants are gone for a season.

The best solution is still to put solar panels and farmland in different places where each can be optimized without concern for the other.

> The best solution is still to put solar panels and farmland in different places where each can be optimized without concern for the other.

There's significant evidence "add solar panels" is an optimization to at least some kinds of farmland.

> farmers can't bring in tractors and cut hay when the ruminants are gone for a season

That season is typically "winter", and you wind up without much hay to cut at that point.

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Believe it or not cattle is a low margin business and farmers can't buy hay (from a non-PV field) and sell meat at a profit. Ranchers cut hay to get their pastured cattle through the winter. They can't have portions of their field unreachable by a tractor. Reasons like this are why this type of tech will always be popular on HN but they just can't figure out why farmers don't want it.
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The case the article makes is for “devoting 1% of farmland to agrovoltaics”, that seems arguably very low and non-intrusive. The loss of some micronutrients is more worrying than the cute notion that industrial-scale farming bothers with sheep grazing.

We could grow some crops in that 1% of land and provide reams of clean power to the world. And the more we restore land to nature, as opposed to our mono-crops and cows, the more co-benefits we reap.

Why should the tractor be a 1950s tractor pulling a mower attachment? If we are talking about something so techy as a solar panel clad farm, it is definitely going to have electronic robotic mowers. These are already used in commercial landscape setting and barely 2 feet tall.
> These are already used in commercial landscape setting and barely 2 feet tall.

Can they mow a 1,000 acres and get through ruts from feral hogs and everything else? If so, then that's awesome (i really don't know) but you have to think of the scale.

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This need not work for all farmland to be useful.

As an example where I think it would work: industrial greenhouses.

This makes sense, as there have been quite a few VC-backed vertical farming (mostly for vegetables, as you can’t grow grains AFAIK) startups which have shut down in the recent few years.
> cut hay when the ruminants are gone for a season.

But surely only certain places need to do this? for the UK, you need to make hay for the winter, assuming that your meadows flood, or are otherwise muddy. But if your in one of the more temperate areas of the southern USA, surely you don't need to do that?

Up here in Scotland (can't speak for England, it's half a day's drive south of me just to get to the border, but watch Clarkson's Farm) we tend not to make hay very much these days. Mostly we make silage, which is where you cut long grass but instead of allowing it to dry into hay you bale it up while it's still green and wrap it in plastic sheeting. It undergoes anaerobic fermentation, which preserves a lot more of the nutrients, and it doesn't spontaneously combust if it's still a tiny bit damp when you store it.

The silage that you get, then, is basically like a kind of grass sauerkraut, and smells exactly like you'd expect.

That combined with "draff" - distillery mash, the spent malt from brewing "pot ale" for making whisky, and a certain amount of shredded sugar beet tends to make up the majority of winter fodder.

Draff is great because it's still fermenting slowly and generating a lot of heat, so the cows are eating hot food in the winter. It's mostly the fibrey bits of the barley malt, which we can't eat but which cows and sheep - having cellulase in at least one of their stomachs - do incredibly well on. It's absolutely no use for anything else, humans can't eat it and it doesn't really compost down. It just rots, stinks, and emits masses of carbon dioxide and methane when it does. Far better for the environment to lock all that up in a cow.

Ideally your fields don't flood because you plant crops in the autumn that stay in the ground over winter to germinate in the spring, and if they get flooded that's it, you've lost the lot.

You tend not to see soya-based or other leguminous food here very much, because it's expensive, it has to be shipped halfway round the planet, and it's ineffective - you get shitty meat that no-one wants to buy.

You need the cows to graze pasture, chew up the grass, break down all that tough cellulose and poo it out as incredibly highly refined fertiliser.

We eat, just about everywhere in the world, because there's six inches of earth, it rains sometimes, and cows and pigs shit solid gold.

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Huge isolated fields of solar end up with the same problem as nuclear: they introduce multiple single-points of failure.

The source can be attacked, the transmission infra can be attacked, the delivery point can be censored.

I think most people want highly distributed, reliable, affordable power. That's why off-grid tech is experiencing such a boom.

I live in a 36' skoolie, so I'm nomad-indexed, but I can confirm that over the past 10 years or so, most RV-lifers have transitioned their focus from recreation / comfort to off-grid experimentation. Essentially everywhere I go in the US, if I'm camped near others, they are going to have minimum viability for boondocking. That was not the case when I started.

Especially amidst the current political instability and apparent looming collapse of the US state, one of the simplest things that most of us can do is stabilize off-grid power in our neighborhoods, and that is quietly happening all over the place.

So, the role of vertically integrated solar (both literally and metaphorically) has more to do with the grid shape that serves our stability needs, and less to do with large-scale differences in efficiency.

Panels are cheap enough that I don’t really see them being a great target for drones. You can dig power lines under the ground and shield them?

What are we comparing against exactly that’s more resilient?

> The source can be attacked, the transmission infra can be attacked, the delivery point can be censored.

Who cares? One isolated field of solar represents a negligible amount of power at grid scale. Nobody is going to bother to go around attacking each individual field because the "ROI" of attacking a high-voltage transmission line (the kind that brings power from multiple thermal plants to a city) is so much higher.

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>everywhere I go in the US, if I'm camped near others, they are going to have minimum viability for boondocking

Can you elaborate, please? What exactly has changed, and over what time period?

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This is silly. Solar fields are cheap and easily replaced. The grid already has enormous single points of failure that are actually hard to replace - they are called substations.
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> I live in a 36' skoolie, so I'm nomad-indexed,

Cool, cool.

So what do you run the engine on? How many single points of failure?

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Some of us are interested in ways to do things outside the US. Yes, even some who live in the US.
You know there's a whole world outside the US... AND most places do not in fact have those vast amounts of open land
In the theorical sense, sure. We could cover all of the world's needs with a solar panel in the Sahara that's 700 km on each side and handwave the transmission lines for that.

The real world however, a farmer owns a specific plot of land, has $w of capital in the back, owes $x in loans, owes y tons of crop, owns z tractors and seeds. Without centralized planning, plopping down solar panels in an optimal place isn't how the real world works.

That is exactly how the real world works, as evidenced by the enormous number of purpose built solar sites and the vanishingly small number of dual use solar fields.
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surely someone is busy breeding the tastiest salad that just can't survive being transported for more than 30mins so you end up NEEDING that stacking right in the city where all the michelin star restaurants are... get the rich to fund and perfect the tech, as "green" as it can be, get some patent under your belt for your investor (mars garden anyone?)
In the theorical sense, sure. We could cover all of the world's needs with a solar panel in the Sahara that's 700 km on each side and handwave the transmission lines for that.

The real world however, a farmer owns a specific plot of land, has $w of capital in the back, owes $x in loans, owes y tons of crop, owns z tractors and seeds. Without centralized planning, plopping down solar panels in an optimal place isn't how things work.

> The best solution is

is it?