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bityard | on: Kimi K3.1 Pro model weights are out
Models this size aren't targeting hobbyists running models in their bedrooms on gaming/surplus hardware bought with disposable income.

This model is for researchers who already have racks of equipment, inference providers who sell access to models, and for businesses who must (or choose to) use on-prem models. All of which have to pay to use the model if their revenue rises beyond certain thresholds: https://huggingface.co/moonshotai/Kimi-K3.1-Pro/blob/main/LI...

SR2Z | parent | next
Considering the likelihood of Moonshot being able to collect a judgement for violating these terms in an American court is basically zero, and the relative ease of finding the weights without the licensing agreement, "have to pay" seems very generous.
joshuaissac | root | parent | next
> likelihood of Moonshot being able to collect a judgement for violating these terms in an American court is basically zero

Chinese companies sue American entities in American courts all the time.

For example, Alibaba won a judgement against the American government last week.[1]

1. https://finance.yahoo.com/markets/stocks/articles/alibaba-wi...

loading story #50378734
KptMarchewa | root | parent | next
> Considering the likelihood of Moonshot being able to collect a judgement for violating these terms in an American court is basically zero

Why? Americans are always yapping how China growth is basically fueled by IP theft, are you saying that it works both ways?

15155 | root | parent
Overusing a piece of software in violation of a TOS/license agreement is radically different than employing human agents to conduct on-the-ground corporate espionage.
boomskats | root | parent
Which only _they_ do. And _we_ don't.

After all, _their_ AI is just trained on stolen IP, right? Unlike _ours_?

I still can't get over how irresponsible it is of _them_ to release these weights for free. That means _anyone_ could gain access to their AI model now.

At least _we_ make sure access to _ours_ is fully controlled by _us_.

dormento | root | parent
People laugh, but it is impressive how often this has to be said, and how often it is ignored.

I'm still waiting for the media juggernauts to start beasting on the american hypescalers due to all the theft going around. I know for a fact that both Anthropic and OpenAI had access to some private github repos of mine in the past (due to clear artifacting in their training set). The thing is, they make so much money (allegedly), so they cannot be wrong (unlike the chinese). And this does not take into account all the hacking and system intrusion facilitated (and often perpetrated) by their systems!

largbae | root | parent
Most enterprises capable of running that much gear won't take that risk even if it is unenforceable. Oracle has made a great living threatening audits of companies who download its updates.
SR2Z | root | parent | next
Yeah, but only Western companies who might have to defend themselves in court. I have no doubt that pirated copies of Oracle DB and the JDK are frequently used in China.
zozbot234 | parent | next
It's only "model as a service" providers beyond the stated threshold that have to pay. No issues for any kind of purely internal use.
limagnolia | parent | next
Or, you can just not pay and save that money to defend yourself in case they do sue you. Because it isn't established that model weights are copyrightable.
bonoboTP | root | parent
It's a license agreement, not copyright. I give you this thing under certain conditions you agree to. That's not simply about copyright. You agreed in a contract not to do something. Some contracts aren't enforceable but there has to be some major reason. By default people and businesses are free to agree to contract terms they want to.
demo4567 | parent | next
abd why should we expect this to be the case? I can atleast buy old server hardware for cheap. GPUs are currently locked down the whole industry.
minton | parent | next
> more than $20 million…in monthly revenue

Sign me up!

zozbot234 | root | parent
The model-as-a-service clause (which is new to the K3 series) actually only requires $20 million over 12 months - i.e. yearly revenue.
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