Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit
caaqil | on: Mathematics has changed. Let's act like it
Academic competitiveness doesn't explain all the hysteria and why those at the top of the field (Field Medal and all) wrote that breakup letter over AI. There seems to be this distinctly toxic trait common among math and CS folks where you don't see work as work, like the median worker, but as intrinsically linked to your self-worth and reason for existence. Literally a math academic crying while being interviewed on AI impact, talking about not knowing what to do with himself.

Who knew 2-3 SD won't save you from being a pattern matcher that can't stand to see a better one.

qntmfred | parent | next
it's not just math and CS. it's a human trait. we are seeing it in the arts and creative fields where technology and AI in particular are making their impact felt. there will be much, much more of this sort of reaction in the years ahead. we'll all have to learn how to adapt. and in the process rediscover that what makes us valuable as people is not our skills but our souls.
loading story #50332346
loading story #50334061
loading story #50330409
loading story #50330904
hn_throwaway_99 | parent | next
> There seems to be this distinctly toxic trait common among math and CS folks where you don't see work as work, like the median worker, but as intrinsically linked to your self-worth and reason for existence.

I don't see this as a toxic trait at all. Some people have the fortune and luxury to do what they love - I don't think that's a bad thing.

I think this quote from Gauss puts it very well: "It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession, but the act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment." So tons of mathematicians feel like AI is stealing this "act of learning which grants the greatest enjoyment", and I think it's fine that they are lamenting this.

This is inherently my whole problem with the "AI utopianists", who somehow think we'll all be happy once we're sitting around with no disease just eating bonbons all day or something.

nradov | root | parent | next
Happiness is a pointless goal anyway. It's not a metric that can be used to measure the success or failure of any particular policy.
| root | parent | next
{"deleted":true,"id":50332840,"parent":50332380,"time":1793590393,"type":"comment"}
hn_throwaway_99 | root | parent
> Happiness is a pointless goal anyway.

Spoken like a true robot. For most of us, happiness (and I mean that broadly defined, e.g. "life satisfaction") is the only goal. I certainly thing happiness is a much more critical goal than "increasing shareholder value".

nradov | root | parent
I know some real assholes who seem quite satisfied with their lives. A shot of heroin will make you happy … for a while. It's a meaningless goal. Regardless of your snarky comment about "shareholder value", we should all aim to make a positive contribution to society and achieve something of lasting value (not necessarily monetary). Happiness might come with that as a side effect but only a fool treats happiness as a goal.
spolitry | root | parent | next
Did Gauss say that learning was only the greatest enjoyment when no one else was known to already know the thing you are learning?
CamperBob2 | root | parent
This is inherently my whole problem with the "AI utopianists", who somehow think we'll all be happy once we're sitting around with no disease just eating bonbons all day or something.

I don't know about Gauss, but when I am given a more powerful tool, I use it to tackle harder problems, the kind that were out of reach before.

Call me when you run out of those sorts of problems. I'll propose some more.

dieortin | root | parent
Why would he call you? AI will propose those new problems instead, and tackle them without any need for your (or any human’s) intervention
CamperBob2 | root | parent
Awesome. Next stop Kardashev Type III, I guess!
wordpad | parent | next
Its equally devastating when you're a renowned expert developer at a specific stack that falls out of favor and nobody cares about your skills any longer. This happens relatively often in tech.
loading story #50330721
loading story #50331989
joe_the_user | parent | next
It may be a bit unhealthy to only identify yourself only with your vocation - there's also family, friends and hobbies. But it's miserable to engage in "work" for forty hours a week when it's something you have no interest in whatsoever. And it is very unhealthy to think most people should do that. If "work is just work", how terrible is that?

If the sum-total of the activities you engage isn't "you", what is? The things you buy? "Your" sports team?

Plus a hypercompetitive academic world is a pretty good explanation for people identifying only with their vocation - how else to do you get to the top except putting your whole self into the challenge?

jacquesm | parent | next
Given the pay of a typical career in math it would seem logical that the typical mathematician's self worth is associated with the work.
Vaushite | parent | next
Seeing work as your purpose was supposed to be the holy grail of work that most people sadly couldn't achieve. Now we just immediately toss that away like a mouldy tomato and what's left? The new highest plane of human existence is working for capitalists to make them more profitable, in exchange for 10% of their profit?
loading story #50330807
SpicyLemonZest | parent
I don't really understand this kind of triumphalism. Would you, personally, identify as a pattern matcher who's happy to see better ones? Or do you think you have some deeper skill more robust against disruption than the math and CS folks who don't know what to do with themselves?

Note that this may include things that you don't think of as being a "skill". I've seen some people brag about being a particularly hard worker, or about a deep instinct towards Getting Stuff Done, with the clear implication that these things can't be automated the way mere mathematical analysis can.

loading story #50330439