Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit
The 4-tier naming is honestly as clear as you can get. I have no idea what people are so confused about.

Terra and Luna are dirt cheap and good enough for 50% (or more) of the typical junior dev's workload, and great for routine work. Sol and Astra have so much written about them at this point that it should be obvious what those are good at. The large/gigantic models for things that need full intelligence and slightly more branching thinking.

The obnoxious/confusing thing is that models are released individually rather than as a family.

Luna < Terra < Sol < Astra, fine. But does Terra 6.1 beat Sol 6? Does Fable 5.1 beat Opus 5.5? If I build something around this Terra 6.1 release, then when Luna 6.2 is released in a month, should I swap?

I understand the confusion, but isn't this kind of similar to asking does the iPhone 14 Max beat the iPhone 16 Mini? At least with phones there are hard specs we can use to compare, but in a lot of cases the answer will be "it depends"
At least there is a simple system - the words 'Mini' and 'Max' are intended to refer to the size of the item (that one is miniature, and the other is their maximum size).

If they were called iPhone 14 Luna and iPhone 16 Sol then this is less clear.

Or on the flipside, if the models were called GPT 6.1 Mini and GPT 6.1 Max, nobody would be arguing about the names being hard to grok. The words 'mini' or 'small' are more descriptive than 'Luna' or 'Terra'.

The problem with that is then you would have GPT 6.1 Max with max thinking which is different from GPT 6.1 Small with max thinking.

If you look back the naming problem started around the point that OpenAI started doing reasoning models (o1, 4o) where they had to describe this fork in model behavior that let a smaller model think longer and be smarter.

You can come up with naming schemes that don't clash, but there's something to be said for this approach where the thinking level is like you describe and the model name requires you to learn that Astra is the largest model.

I guess it never really occurred to me that people wouldn't immediately grok:

* Luna (Moon)

* Terra (Earth)

* Sol (Sun)

* Astra (Galaxy/Universe)

The relative sizing seems dead simple.

> dead simple.

1. Even more dead simple if it just used Moon instead of Luna, Sun instead of Sol, etc. - one less quick translation in the head.

2. Or even more dead simple if it just used "Small", "Large", etc. - removing another quick translation in the head. (On the other hand, all these suggestions are English - maybe Luna, etc. is more understandable for non-English speakers?)

You're misunderstanding the misunderstanding.

You're right! The relative sizing of models is dead simple. This doesn't help when there are improvements between release numbers, and models are released one at a time instead of as a family.

When Sol 6.4 comes out and the latest Astra is still 6.1, which do you use?

I use Sol 6.4 because it's newer (and "big") unless there is a specific benchmark that 6.1 Astra scores better on that I think I need.

Or I might try both and pick whichever I prefer for a given task...

loading story #50254578
> does the iPhone 14 Max beat the iPhone 16 Mini?

Sure, in a hypothetical world where the latest Max phone is two generations older than the latest Mini phone. In which case now you have to evaluate not only screen size but ALSO specs and component age and software support etc. How badly do you need the bigger screen? Etc

If you are comparing the iPhone 16 Max to the iPhone 16 Mini, everything is a lot easier.

> iPhone 16 Mini

I wish

Yeah, but shouldn't then all 4 tiers be released at once? So we get 6.1 for all Luna/Terra/Sol/Astra?
It's more like if Apple called the iPhone 16 the "iPhone 14 16 edition"
I’d rock an iPhone 1942 Edition.
Don’t forget to refill the kerosene tank!
I mean yes, phone manufacturers have the same problem.
No. It’s not similar at all.
Run your own evals then if you have this much of a need to "correctly" choose. That'll make it clear.

I'll just stick to mostly Sol on low/medium/high and start experimenting with Terra tomorrow onward to see what it does noticeably better than Luna/Deepseek flash.

Any pareto frontier model, especially from the leading labs is guarnateed to be good enough for whatever your expectations are at this point. A quick few day test should be enough for anyone to make their own conclusions.

Right, having products so poorly described that a customer needs to run their own evals to choose well is exactly what is being complained about.
{"deleted":true,"id":50251598,"parent":50249948,"time":1793051656,"type":"comment"}
Or I'm going to give up and not use any. Consumers aren't perfectly rational. This isn't like toothpaste, where, despite being overwhelmed at the store, I still need to brush my teeth so ahhhhhh fuckit and just pick a toothpaste out of the 30 available. The alternative is I keep using Google search and think AI is stupid. Or just use Facebook's thing.
The frontier toothpaste is the one with bioglass 45S5. Especially if you have sensitive teeth or your teeth are prone to caries.
Nano-HAp is good, too
> > But does Terra 6.1 beat Sol 6?

> Run your own evals then if you have this much of a need to "correctly" choose.

No. OpenAI want my money, it's on them to communicate properly.

What would you want to see instead? Not sure about you but my needs are specific enough that I don't think OAI has evals for them, and I wouldn't want to give them that data even if they wanted to run it for me.
“ChatGPT 6.1 Max” would be simple.
Then you're going to have ChatGPT 6.1 Max Low and ChatGPT 6.1 Max Max.
How does one more-properly articulate "it depends"?
> Luna < Terra < Sol < Astra, fine. But does Terra 6.1 beat Sol 6? Does Fable 5.1 beat Opus 5.5? If I build something around this Terra 6.1 release, then when Luna 6.2 is released in a month, should I swap?

I understand how it can be confusing, but I don't think that this is exactly a problem.

Luna through Astra offer qualitative descriptions of the model's size. Presumably OpenAI trains its biggest model (Astra-ish, maybe even larger) first, then distills it to smaller sizes.

Verison numbers reflect something about the architecture or training dataset. Again, they keep these details close to their chest, but we should expect that weight-for-weight higher versions should beat lower versions.

This offers us two axes of 'better', but these axes are also not directly comparable. An earlier but bigger model may or may not beat a newer but smaller model. This is where 'spiky' intelligence comes in.

This is also where calls to 'run your own evaluation' really do start to matter. If you care enough about this performance[1], then you also have specific problems that you care about. No generic benchmark can fully answer that question, hence the need for a specific evaluation.

[1] — And you don't have to! A casual user is probably served reasonably well by anything put out in the past six months. I think Microsoft is still serving GPT-4o under some Copilot branding.

I think it is a problem, for OpenAI. If their answer to "which of your models are better" is to throw their hands in the air and say "fuck if we know, go figure it out yourself" then that's going to go poorly as soon as they try to actually sell to some of the market they're predicting they can sell to.

Whether they train the biggest model first or not is not relevant; what matters is what they release. Right now we've got 6.1 Sol and 6.0 Astra. Over at Anthropic they've got Opus 5.5 and Fable 5.1. The existence of a hypothetical Fable 5.5 that I'm not allowed to use doesn't help me.

> The 4-tier naming is honestly as clear as you can get. I have no idea what people are so confused about.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Atmospheric mass may be obvious to us, but I suspect it's not nearly as universal knowledge as one may assume.

And I actually assumed at first that they were based on distance from us (terra < luna < sol), so I kept confusing terra and luna.

It’s totally clear. About as clear as mud.