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(context: I'm the CTO of Quad9 and am one of the people dealing with the lawyers)

There is an understandable focus on "how are you going to block French users" when we have also claimed that geoIP blocking is insufficient for selectively denying resolution for certain names - we understand this conflict, but we think it is energy spent in the wrong place.

It is probable that we will use geoIP filters to block French users from our services after November 24. We could apply this same geoIP filter list now to selectively block French users from reaching the sites that we've been told to make unavailable. But this would corrupt our core premise, which is that the DNS is not the right place for this to happen, and if we comply within France to meet the requirement then we accept the worst eventual outcome for users and we still do not have legally perfect coverage. We wish to first remain consistent with our core mission, and secondarily we must remain as close to compliance as we can to the legal constraints put upon us. By accepting the demands for blocking, we would admit that such demands are permissible within our mission - that we will act on behalf of companies (or others) to create ineffective and mis-directed regimes of content constraint.

We would be admitting that we think this solves the problem - it does not. We would be admitting that we will do this for an ever-increasing number of names - we will not. We would be permitting these methods to be applied for more areas of filtering such as moral, religious, social, or political reasons - we must not.

So we accept that there is the possibility that we will have errors in our blockade, but in this case (blocking French users) we maintain consistency with our stated mission of integrity of the DNS. We would rather there be a clear distinction made for users of our services: you get the DNS as you (the user) expects, or if Quad9 is forced to pollute the service with unexpected and arbitrary number of fragmentation demands, then we will not offer the services at all.

The underlying issue is not ONLY that geoIP blocking is ineffective, but that the entire premise of any of these demands is inappropriately applied to DNS recursive resolution providers. We would hope that this discussion continues to be on the most fundamental of the disagreement we have with the outcome in this court case, not on the details of the technical implementation which have yet to be entirely decided and which can be tuned over time.

Thanks for fighting this.

I wonder how much longer the internet will manage to hold out. Governments will continue trying to impose their laws on it, causing the international network to degenerate to numerous national networks with heavy filtering at the borders. It's really sad to watch...

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Keep up the good fight! I'm happy that you take a stand for your beliefs and try to do what's best for all of us.
Thank you for the explanation! I couldn't agree more with your stance, and I appreciate deeply you fighting to maintain your (correct) principles. You've gained at least one fan and new user today.
If you have no presence in France do you need to care about the ruling or the fines?
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Quick question: what would happen if you decided to simply shield yourself from France’s action without applying any change to your dns? Or is blocking french users considered a compliant answer by French courts?

I don’t get why you would still need to block french users if you also need to exit the jurisdiction.

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Honest question here: why don't they target the operators for the nameservers that own the affected domain, basically the TLDs?

Oh right, the blocked domain is probably not a french TLD...

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One can only hope the tribunal that rendered this ridiculous decision is one of the organizations that lose DNS access on November 24.
Unrelated but hoping you could answer this:

There was a rumour years ago that Quad9 was connected to UK intelligence, or something like that. I haven't heard anyone discuss there for a long time, but wondering if you (or anyone reading this) can comment on the source of the rumours and whether there is any veracity to them.

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I’m sorry for being so dense, so what do you plan to do?

It sounds like selectivd site blocking is against your mission, so will you then just not offer Quad9 to any person in France instead (total blackout across all sites)?

Sorry if I’m missing the obvious or your stated solution.

Thank you for bringing your cause to light, with the very well thought and written write-ups on the blog post and further here on HackerNews.

Despite going against you stand for, why not consider implementing a service fee of 100,000 euros per domain name that is requested to be blocked?

I wish I was /s on this but this be a way for you to say that you comply, with no sane company would go about requesting tens or hundreds of domains to be blocked, endlessly, for the rest of eternity (as the courts currently are asking your company to do, forever, at your own cost).

Technically, there is GeoIP filtering going into place after the 24th so why not put that to good use for a while until you get some orders for this new service (or a drop in interest from the suitors) ?:)

Respect. I'm not a big fan of politics, but have you ever tried to explain your mission to EU legislators and try to make them understand your viewpoint? There seem to be some quite strong-handed tactics to make content disappear from the internet, and having some of those in charge understand that this is not the way forward might turn out to be very important to all of us in the future.
Sorry that you guys have to go through this. I use quad9 and it works great!
Better than geoip, y'all could work with the French to have French networks point to a black hole server by having BGP point 9.9.9.9 at said server.
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Good to see leaders stand up for what they believe in. Soemtimes I simply do not understand this obsession with controlling the internet by European countries. So ridiculous.
I suggest you present a SplinterCon in Stockholm in December. It is, very sadly, an important situation to explain.
I asked his elsewhere but aren't there like a prepondeance of existing case law or amicus-briefs that would speak to the logical and historical stupidity of arguments by the plaintiffs?
You should make the case of Qatar corruption money having bought this ruling.

Qatar spends a lot of money to bribe european politicians - that is known for a long time now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_corruption_scandal_at_th...

And now we know why Qatar bribes everyone in the EU. They buy legislation. Or at the least rulings.

I wish you the best! I wonder how many percent of your overall budget id eaten up by anything legal related?

It seems you are under heavy legal pressure, mostly from companies which are abusing usual ignorance of courts.

This was clearly a difficult decision, but I support your position. I have donated to help you continue the work.

Good luck.

So, basically, you admit you will comply exiting all countries that ask for it; Pushing users to allegedly less safe resolvers in the name of security and integrity; And eventually ending the service in a couple of years because no one will be able to use your service since you'll be blocking most parts of the world and won't work without VPN exit in specific places. The decision is understandable, this really is a dillema I wouldn't want to take part in. You'll die by a thousand cuts of authoritarianism.
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It's strange that Quad9 openly does malicious domain filtering [1] using what it terms "threat intelligence feeds", but apparently filtering piracy domains is technically impossible and not the right place for this to happen. I think courts rightly are suspicious of this kind of doublespeak from DNS companies. If DNS filtering is effective for protection against malware and ransomware, it will be at least somewhat effective for piracy filtering too.

[1] https://quad9.net/service/threat-blocking/

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