Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit
I have a friend at Google DeepMind who tells me that Google believes in AGI/superintelligence just as much as HN does, which is probably why no one with conviction wants to work there.
> I have a friend at Google DeepMind who tells me that Google believes in AGI/superintelligence just as much as HN does, which is probably why no one with conviction wants to work there.

With "believes in AGI/superintelligence just as much as HN does" do you mean that they are superbelievers or rather sceptical of AGI/superintelligence? I have seen both positions on HN.

What’s with fascination with agi/superintelligence? It seems people working on it never had kids and just want to compensate for that. It’s a really horrible thing to try to “solve”.
> What’s with fascination with agi/superintelligence

We had relative strength, we needed more strength, we built cranes;

there was something like intelligence, we needed more intelligence, we sought to fill the need;

we were rightly fascinated with intelligence, we studied intelligence itself, we wanted to build it...

And then somebody built things that looked like intelligence, and very rightly some said "Oh, now we have to get to the Real Thing with urgency".

I think death, and most extreme pain/suffering should be optional. Superintelligence, if done safely, lets us solve most of our problems.
The vast majority of pain and suffering in the world is already entirely optional, but as people we allow it to exist. How is another computer going to fix that?

It is far more likely that whoever controls a super intelligence uses it to gain more power and inflict far more suffering

what an asinine opinion. who allows death?
I agree, we're doing a wonderful job of safely letting the leaders of various countries and companies, at their option, cause death, extreme pain, and suffering. Look at the innovation of AI companies in the police and military sectors.

I'm extremely bullish on our future ability to make autonomous death an option for anyone.

If humans could politically-economically deploy superintelligence safely, then we'd already have less extreme pain/suffering.

Unless there are countervailing forces, it will be deployed, capital will hoard the benefits, and everyone else will be told to fuck off.

I don't have faith in any of the AI labs to make hard financial decisions to deploy hypothetical future AGI in a way that's good for humanity as a whole.

There are too many incentives against, including extreme personal financial incentives for key AI lab stakeholders against.

And if we should take anything from tech history, it's that an exceedingly small number of people look fuck-you money in the face and say "Naw, I'd rather do what I believe in."

Capital hoards benefits because resource scarcity and cost of production are a thing

Post scarcity societies would likely have entirely different dynamics

loading story #49200502
loading story #49199949
What is your position on middle of the road pain and suffering?
There's an app for that.
What? psychologists are for that (or drugs and alcohol).
Neat. I didn't know psychologists could cure terminal cancer!
loading story #49200590
{"deleted":true,"id":49194835,"parent":49194210,"time":1786012014,"type":"comment"}
I for one think that's it's been too long that human suffering is alone. Since the machines will take our jobs, they might as well suffer while they do it.

It's like the old adage: "If you make AGI you just want to watch computers cry"

How much belief is that? I tend to skip the HN posts that are about AI.
{"deleted":true,"id":49194917,"parent":49188074,"time":1786012618,"type":"comment"}
Most of HN does not take the idea of superintelligence seriously, and until this year did not take the idea of AGI seriously.

I think LessWrong is a much better community for rational takes on AI, they've been reasoning about these risks for years under a much more sound logical framework

I'm a researcher in the field and I definitely take AGI seriously, but think all the major labs and most of the academic research is not helping achieve it any serious way. The field is seriously delusional (and has been ever since GPT 3 was released).

Even though my PhD research was in generative language modeling, I got into it for the pursuit of AGI. I just think LLMs are a dead end for AGI.

> I'm a researcher in the field and I definitely take AGI seriously

> I just think LLMs are a dead end for AGI.

I have no background in CS, so apologies if this is a naive question, but what makes you take AGI seriously, but also say that LLMs are a dead end?

i.e., is there something else that you think is not a dead end?

loading story #49191109
Genuine question: can I ask why?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems early to say yes or no about a particular technology, and LLMs seem especially hard to dismiss given how magical / magic-adjacent they feel :)

I'd be curious to hear more, if you don't mind sharing.

loading story #49190914
Looked up LessWrong. Eh, philosophy people, also known for that "Roko's basilisk" meme. I'm gonna pass.
Through no fault of our own, I should note. We're basically permanently associated with something Roko decided to post one day. We did not spread or popularize it; quite the opposite.

The Basilisk has seen enormously more use as "a thing rationalists believe" than as a thing rationalists actually believe.

> quite the opposite

Apparently living on the net still doesn't guarantee that one has heard of the Streisand Effect.

In any case, my first association with LessWrong is Zizians, not Roko.

As a mod you have to delete harmful things. I think the spread of Roko's is entirely due to its own memetic strength as an idea, and the Streisand effect has very little to do with it past the first dozen people who saw it.

We also have done nothing to signal-boost the Zizians. :) If we can be accused of anything in this context, it's not kicking bad people out aggressively enough, which seems very different from fostering bad ideas. Zizianism is not a widespread ideology in rationalist circles, in fact it was confined to a very small circle right around Ziz themselves. It unfortunately is the case that we have a lot of psychologically vulnerable people and we don't always do the utmost we can to protect them, in large part because a lot of rationalists have trauma about being excluded from communities.

It's a rationalist community, IMHO their methodology of thought leads to much more well-reasoned takes on AI than on HN, where the discussion here is often very emotionally charged or led by wishful thinking.

When it comes to AI, LessWrong has been discussing topics for years, that HN has just started to consider, so they are much further along in the philosophical "chain of thought" so to say. LW fully understood and gamed out the risks of LLMs back when most of HN was calling them "stochastic parrots." https://ai-2027.com/

loading story #49191269
loading story #49190799
loading story #49194423
loading story #49194095
loading story #49193931
{"deleted":true,"id":49188245,"parent":49188118,"time":1785960326,"type":"comment"}
AGI might be a risk but what top AI firms are doing is not really getting us closer to AGI in a meaningful way, it is pretty clear now LLM is not the way to get there
A few months ago I heard Demis Hassabis say something, albeit vague, I doubt he truly believed regarding AGI. That AGI is relatively near is the party line everywhere. That may contribute to creating toxic environments and lousy investment decisions. So here we go with the FOMO.
I think HN believes in AGI. HN probably doesn't believe LLMs will lead to AGI.

Also lots of tech people, HN included, are waking up to technology not only including penicillin (net positive for humanity) but also dynamite (best case: net neutral).

Dynamite has been incredibly beneficial for humanity.
Has is been a net positive?
loading story #49194366
loading story #49190100
Indirectly. Direct application of dynamite to the human body is considerably more fraught an event than direct application of penicillin. As the fundamental goal of technology is to extend the capability of the human body, it's natural to implicitly and primarily consider what that extended capability can do to another human body.

It's nice that we have tunnels through mountains and bedrock.

loading story #49191499
loading story #49194282
I believe in AGI to the extent that if what's going on between your ears isn't happening on a network of neurons, it's magic. And I also believe the idea that AGI is near is based on the emergent capabilities of LLMs. There's a chance that AGI will emerge from bigger faster better LLMs. But without a theory of when and how that will happen, I'm not counting on it.