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prmoustache | on: GrapheneOS protections against data extraction from locked devices
A lot of people are still using their smartphone pretty much as a dumbphone with a web browser.
skitsofrandom | parent | next
Yeah but if you're a normal guy strolling through every time with a phone that has nothing- no pictures, no signed in email, no history of messages, 4 contacts. That's abnormal, no way of spinning it as "but I just don't use my phone much" will make that seem normal. The average person has their phone glued to their body 24/7 now. Implying that you don't is abnormal.
hamper653 | root | parent | next
"I only ever cross borders with a blank phone because I don’t want you invading my privacy" is a perfectly valid answer. You can also add that it is your employer’s policy and/or your government official recommendation.
Terr_ | root | parent | next
You can also point out that other countries want to search phones too.

"I have to do this because of country X, you know that they're like, amirite?"

stef25 | root | parent | next
> a perfectly valid answer

Makes no difference at all in the real world. You don't have to give valid answers, you need to get the guy across from you to not find you suspicious. That phrase is going to put a red flag on you, valid or not.

hamper653 | root | parent
> you need to get the guy across from you to not find you suspicious.

What? No, who cares about that? Let him find you suspicious, what matters is that he doesn’t access your data. And it is not suspicious to cross borders (esp. US borders) with burner phones. As others have said, it is standard practice.

inigyou | root | parent
He doesn't access your data. He confiscates your phone, then still doesn't access your data, then denies you entry, then still doesn't access your data, then holds you in immigration detention for a week while he tries to access your data, which he can't. Is that a success? Maybe, if your data really is that valuable and a successful border crossing isn't.
hamper653 | root | parent
> Is that a success?

Definitely.

> Maybe, if your data really is that valuable and a successful border crossing isn't.

Even if my data consisted entirely of cat pictures, it would be more valuable than successfuly crossing the border into a country that actively tries to invade my privacy.

inigyou | root | parent
Well why are you showing up at a border crossing if you don't want to cross the border?
loading story #49060937
loading story #49060140
inigyou | root | parent
It's one that will get you denied entry, or detained indefinitely.
microtonal | root | parent | next
I have worked for employers that required taking a burner phone to certain countries without any accounts logged in, etc. (so mostly for calls, maps, and web browsing) and nobody has ever been detained or denied entry. Some countries know that this is just standard procedure when they are visited for business trips. Probably different for the US though.

(Not legal advise of course, just observation. Always check with the legal department of your employer, etc.)

hamper653 | root | parent | next
> Probably different for the US though.

After cornering themselves into being labeled an unsafe destination (long overdue imho), the US are gonna have to learn being treated as such.

inigyou | root | parent
"I'm here for business and my employer requires it" is an acceptable excuse. "I don't like government surveillance" is not.
hamper653 | root | parent
Denied entry, why not. But detained?
inigyou | root | parent
In the USA border they detain people they think are lying until they think they are not lying.
hamper653 | root | parent
Lying about what? "I only bring a burner phone to border checks because I don’t want people like you to access my data“ is not a lie, and I fail to see how it could be interpreted as such.
| root | parent | next
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Dusseldorf | root | parent
"I got on pickpocketed on my last vacation, so now I travel with an old backup phone instead"
skitsofrandom | root | parent
This may feel like a good idea as a “gotcha” justification but it just doesn’t matter. It’s still extremely abnormal and you will stick out. The only way to protect yourself is by blending in, not sticking out.
rolph | root | parent | next
i am familiar with a number of the security team personnel, so i can give you the inside perspective.

the reaction you provoke at a border crossing, or an LEO encounter is almost entirely based on what profile you fit.

the vehicle, the state/contents of the vehicle, what you say, even how you move, are being evaluated for consistency with a profile.

inigyou | root | parent
I think it would work. It's plausible enough. It doesn't have to be the most common answer to be accepted.
skitsofrandom | root | parent
Well but the point goes beyond “do they let you through.” All of this goes past the here and now. It’s about getting flagged in some system that causes you to get picked out 3 stops down the line when these odd occurrences add up to you not being trustworthy based on your profile history.

That kind of history is already being collected about people. That’s what you should be worried about when it comes to engineering some scheme that sounds clever.