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jaapz | on: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?
It's not really a free market when one country is heavily subsidizing it's industries
tejtm | parent | next
It is not as though other countries could not choose do the same.

It seem to me that China choosing to subsidize industry it is not so different than the US choosing to subsidize Roads, Autos and OIL.

In both cases it does seem to work splendidly as intended.

Other than political inertia (or economic reasons far beyond my ability to fathom) there is nothing to stop the US from following suit.

I accept "free market" is a term of art probably from before global trade reality and could be narrowly redefined to mean whatever one wants (or wanted when it was coined) but in my ignorance I see it simply as free to choose actions and responses.

But I am far far away from opinions I am qualified to hold, think I will shut up now.

lyu07282 | root | parent
I think the overwhelming and undeniable success and prosperity of China is the biggest concern to the west, the neoliberals consistently predicted their immediate downfall that never came. Except we are all still led by the same neoliberals proven wrong about everything, the contradictions everywhere are driving us all into collective insanity. If we don't manage to purge our media and governments from these vile people the only path forward is collective decline, increased totalitarianism and our repression leading to a war with China. Wars don't always end in the right side winning, and the cold war was won by the wrong side.
tejtm | root | parent
Thanks, not to disagree but it may be best to use plain language as I do not know what a neoliberal is to me never mind what it means to you.

I do know liberal is used as a derisive term by the people we (US) are being led by which leads me to cognitive dissonance parsing your statement.

lostlogin | parent | next
So ridiculous. So a bit of subsidy is ok, but no more than the US does? As a country that’s suffered from the US subsidising its own industries, my sympathy is zero.
throwaway2037 | root | parent

    > As a country that’s suffered from the US subsidising its own industries
What country and what industries? I am curious. Do you think that you own country does not do the same to others?
lostlogin | root | parent
> What country and what industries?

New Zealand. Meat exports and dairy.

nikisweeting | parent | next
and the US famously never subsidizes any of its industries...
creato | root | parent | next
> Between 2005 and 2024, Chinese firms received on average three to eight times more subsidies than competitors in OECD economies.

https://www.oecd.org/en/blogs/2026/06/industrial-subsidies-h...

baby | root | parent | next
I can't read this seriously while being unable to buy any Chinese EVs here in the US.
tptacek | root | parent
You can't buy Chinese EVs in the US because China is overtly running a dumping campaign for them. It's an interesting story, read up on it!
t0mpr1c3 | root | parent | next
That is (factually) a giant overstatement, and ignores domestic US politics.

It's almost like you believe the US remains interested in promoting free trade.

If it did, it wouldn't be levying illegal and constantly changing import tariffs, in violation of international trade agreements that it has signed up to.

awesome_dude | root | parent
Wait - what?

You cannot buy them because they are dumping them??????

tptacek | root | parent
"Dumping" is a term of art in international trade.

It's the thing that happens when a foreign exporter sells goods in your country below their production cost (or far below what they're charging domestic customers). It's done to fuck up the foreign markets for those goods, or, in China's case, as a relief valve for malinvestment.

China drastically overfunds EV production. There's a whole weird story where provinces apparently competed to get slices of the EV production business, which resulted in a large number of competing firms, producing far more vehicles than the Chinese domestic market could consume.

This isn't just a US thing. Europe tariffs the heck out of these cars.

watwut | root | parent | next
The whole SV is based on dumping. And was for decades.
tptacek | root | parent
I don't know how this is supposed to respond to what I just wrote. If an EU country restricted contracts or usage with Google or OpenAI, I wouldn't call them out for doing so. All I'm saying is that it's especially clear why Chinese EVs are impeded from selling in the US.
awesome_dude | root | parent
Yes, I am well aware of the definition of dumping - that fails to explain why people cannot buy them.

If they're being dumped there is an oversupply, and people are spoilt for choice. The market is awash with the dumped product.

Not being able to buy them is the exact reverse of that.

tptacek | root | parent
The entire point of anti-dumping actions is that left unregulated, people will buy these unsubsidized cars.
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lostlogin | root | parent
What’s the level of subsidy that’s ok?
throwaway2037 | root | parent
I'll take a stab. How about something like not more than 50% greater than OECD average per industry? My point: It seems reasonable that some countries was to specialise in certain areas. For example: Taiwan and (East!) Germany chose to build-out their semiconductor industry starting in the 1980s. It has paid pretty good dividends with a healthy amount of industrial subsidies. I also think the OECD should be raising tariff rates to protect against ridiculous levels of Chinese subsidies.
lostlogin | root | parent | next
Appeals to fairness are difficult to accept when the rest of us out here in the world have been hurt by the US imposing tariffs and sanctions on us over the past few decades, and with intense chaotic energy in the last few years.

How do we make a system everyone is to abide by when the US can just rewrite the rules when it suits? Order collapses when a huge country behaves this way.

t0mpr1c3 | root | parent
Quite a few members of the OECD have already done so.
gruez | root | parent
Which industries are the US leading in because of subsidies?
bruce511 | root | parent | next
Arms, weapons, fighter jets and so on. The US sounds a trillion $ a year subsidizing the military industrial complex.

The US chose their market (arms). The Chinese chose consumer goods. Go figure.

tadfisher | root | parent | next
Basically every "made in USA" consumer product has a DOD contract. The DOD is mandated by law to purchase from US companies, so there is a huge sector of small-to-medium businesses which only exist because there is a guaranteed order coming every quarter for uniforms or boots or other equipment that would likely be 1/3 the price if they were contract-manufactured in China or Vietnam.

Not saying this is uniformly bad, because without the law the number of businesses with the ability to manufacture this stuff would trend toward zero, but it is a form of subsidy.

throwaway2037 | root | parent
I wonder if this pattern is true for all militaries in rich countries. I think it sounds like good economic policy. If you want to grow your military, then you need to make sure it is spent domestically. Also, the "finish good" may include lots of parts that were built overseas. Think about a Tomohawk missile: I am sure the microchips are all made overseas. That said, the intellectual property is developed domestically (or with very close allies) and final assembly is done domestically.
sarchertech | root | parent | next
US Arms exports bring in around $13 billion a year. The military industrial complex is a domestic jobs program that sells the vast majority of what it makes domestically. The US is clearly not spending a trillion dollars a year subsidizing defense in order to make their products more competitive in other markets.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/arms_exports/

mstachowiak | root | parent
Sadly, consumer goods are the new arms (drones, batteries, etc)
nick238 | root | parent | next
Oil, natural gas, corn (for fuel), soybeans (for cattle feed)
greyb | root | parent | next
If a country hands out enormous subsidies but yet isn't leading in anything, then maybe it's time to consider what structural reasons are causing these subsidies to be squandered and whose bottom lines are being padded.
sarchertech | root | parent
What US industries get anywhere near Chinese level subsidies.
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t0mpr1c3 | root | parent | next
Ever wondered why everything in the USA contains corn syrup? Because sugar is artificially expensive (roughly double the global price) due to import tariffs that protect US sugar cane farmers.
baby | root | parent
EVs, mobile phones, are two massive industries where Chinese competitors are not only way ahead, but also basically banned.
nicbou | parent | next
It's not much more of a free market when giant corporations do.
tchalla | parent | next
Every country including the US does that.
g8oz | parent | next
Successful Chinese industries tend to be subsidized at the level of cities and regions. This creates fierce intra national rivalry that forces rapid evolution and excellence. Electric vehicles are an example.

Anything the federal government pumps money into tends not to do as well.

watwut | parent | next
This particular complaint is tripple hypocritical. US whole deal is to sell under price until competition dies and only then bring up prices or remove offering.

It winner takes all econony is literally based on destroying the competition as such.

t0mpr1c3 | root | parent
Ignoring foreign patents also played a big part in US industrialization.
fireflash38 | parent | next
Does it matter? When has capitalism cared about fair or free
FpUser | parent
Or when one country can print endless money while threatening the rest of the world with all kinds of punishment if they stop using it as a reserve currency.

Stop crying already. US subsidizes a boatload of things.