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dcreater | on: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency
I really hope we stop using the term "Chinese models". It has this air of Negative connotation. It's the equivalent of calling cars Japanese, which people used to do but now is almost entirely meaningless. You just call them Toyota, Honda, Lexus etc.
hootz | parent | next
For me, it has a positive connotation! In my experience, Chinese Model means cheaper, but still quite effective model you can use for millions of tokens without burning your entire wallet in seconds. That's why I get more excited over a Chinese model release over American models.
sroerick | parent | next
I don't know, I tried using one of the Chinese models and it was VERY quick to scan my entire home dir, so maybe your threat surface is a little different than mine
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| parent | next
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odiroot | parent | next
Japanese cars is actually a positive qualifier. I'd say anything Japanese motor-powered.
esafak | parent | next
I don't think "Chinese" is pejorative in this context any more than "American" is. They are one of the two ecosystems. What's wrong with saying "Japanese cars" today?
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unethical_ban | parent | next
No thanks.

The term seems to have the connotation of "competitive at 1/10 the price of Claude", so I don't see the problem.

It's not Harbor Freight Chinese (and heck even they have decent stuff sometimes now too).

You don't think people still talk about Japanese cars as a distinction in quality from US or European ones?

WarmWash | parent | next
They are all funded and owned by the same entity, the CCP, so it probably would be better to call them CCP models.

Edit: Downvoting something doesn't make it false.

SubiculumCode | root | parent | next
For those that don't like calling them CCP models, may I remind you, the CCP won't let Chinese AI researchers out of the country any more without securing approval first[1].

[1] https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...

jdw64 | root | parent | next
I tend to agree with the comment in my reply thread about whether we really need to add biased modifiers to the essence of a good product. I think every national system in this world is flawed. And in this context, 'China or Chinese' is often used in a negative sense, like 'Made in China'. But KIMI is a good model, and I think the comment that pointed this out to me correctly identified my unconscious bias.

And even if the Chinese Communist Party provided funding, the result is still transparently released. So even if it is some kind of propaganda, I don't see what the problem is.

Is the monopolistic greed of American companies 'good', and China's greed 'bad'? I do have that question.

SubiculumCode | root | parent | next
The question is not whether it is a good model, it is whether the model can be trusted to not act intentionally maliciously against certain topics or certain users.

We live in a time of a great geopolitical rivalry and high tensions with an emergent technology with tons of national security implications. To pretend otherwise is silly, and to fail to ask the question, dangerous.

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WarmWash | root | parent
Whether or not it's propaganda is different from the fact that it is owned by the CCP.
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dcreater | root | parent | next
I've heard this claim before but I've never seen any evidence.
kennywinker | root | parent | next
Have you looked, or you’re just waiting for someone to hand it to you?
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WarmWash | root | parent
Assuming you are just naive like so many others about China...

China is a communist country with elements of capitalistic markets baked in. But the capitalistic elements are mostly a facade. Underneath, the state retains full ownership and control of all business. The CCP runs all aspects of the government (including the courts/judges), and is the single entity that decides what directions the country (and it's businesses) will move in.

The CCP, who defacto owns everything and has ultimate final say on everything, has one leader that has the ultimate final say on _everything_, Xi Jinping.

So while the waters of CCP models feel warm and free, understand it's not organically like that.

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well_ackshually | root | parent
yes, yes, the spectre of communism, BYD is the CCP, Alibaba is the CCP, stealing your children and eating them for Mao, bla bla bla.

I have a feeling you'd be slightly salty at people saying "Google and Tesla are making CIA models"

Terretta | root | parent | next
I mean...

Since its development, IQT has invested in over 750 startups spanning diverse technological sectors, including:

  - Artificial Intelligence
  - Space Technologies
  - Microelectronics and Quantum Computing
  - Life Sciences
  - Cybersecurity
  - Hardware
  - Energy
This broad portfolio has enabled IQT to address a wide array of national security challenges while supporting the growth of innovative startups…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel

https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2012/07/16/15...

https://www.cgai.ca/th_bn_iqt

well_ackshually | root | parent
I know, but it's far too fun to bait the parent into revealing how ignorant they are.
deadbolt | root | parent | next
Going by their response you appear to have been correct lol
WarmWash | root | parent
I'm not salty, they are just confused about the difference between free enterprise capitalism and communism, which is understandable.
WarmWash | root | parent
Google and Tesla making products to sell to the government is different than the government funding the government to make products for the government.

In China it's all one entity with these mock facades of privatization. Trump cannot instruct Google to put picture of dogs on their homepage. If Xi wakes up and wants dogs on Alibaba's homepage, give it 30 minutes.

It's wholly ignorant or dishonest to make the comparison.

wqaatwt | root | parent | next
> Trump cannot instruct Google to

Tim Apple and the other tech CEO constantly groveling at Trump’s feet indicates that he might be able to do that.

Just like threatening TV networks about having their licenses revoked of blocking mergers unless they fire the people making fun of him on TV (of course with slightly mixed success)

well_ackshually | root | parent
> Trump cannot instruct Google to put picture of dogs on their homepage.

Sundar Pichai would personally be barking on a livestream on the homepage.

Trump is quite literally the one president showing that the US has zero rules or anything to hold power back from the white house, really not the example you want.

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jdw64 | parent
You are right. I agree.It may seem like a kind of bias, but I hadn't thought of that part. Thank you for pointing out my bias.
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