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robobro | on: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony
I live in Indonesia. We have the highest per-capita rate of bike ownership in the world.

I have seen what happens to motorcycle riders when there are accidents and I have seen what happens to car drivers when there are accidents. I won't get into the gory details but I avoid using bikes as much as possible.

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And I've seen what happens when pedestrians get hit by a car going way too fast, it sucks, and is horrible, but also besides the point. Not to say one has worse/better accidents, motorcycles accidents obviously has a much higher fatality and serious injuries risk, hard to deny.
ProllyInfamous | root | parent
>but also besides the point.

Hard disagree.

Both pedestrians and motorcyclists are raw to the elements, entirely. At least when on roadways an automobile provides a chassis/rollcage.

qmr | root | parent | next
When vulnerable road users are killed in other countries there is strict liability. That is, the driver is assumed at fault unless proven otherwise.

In America it's the perfect crime.

"I'm so sorry officer I never saw them."

Case closed Lou.

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embedding-shape | root | parent
You disagree with me agreeing with what you just wrote about it being more dangerous to go with motorcycles?

The "besides the point" is that the point I was raising was how common motorcycles are, globally. Is that what you're disagreeing with?

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qmr | parent
Crashes. Not accidents.
coldtea | root | parent
Accidents. Not everything is under the driver's control, nor does it happen due to their intention (or even necessarily due to their lack of attention or whatever).

There's a reason the term accident is used (I know at least 10 countries where the meaning is the same).

qmr | root | parent | next
Crash.

Google crash not accident will give many resources.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/travel/safety/road-users/crash...

> there's a reason

Yes, the auto lobby.

Saying "accident" implies that the tens of thousands of road deaths every year are an unavoidable consequence of the convenience of driving.

That's just not true.

embedding-shape | root | parent
> Saying "accident" implies that the tens of thousands of road deaths every year are an unavoidable consequence of the convenience of driving.

What? Where is that conclusion coming from? There can be thousands of "accidents" and they can all be preventable, calling it "crash" or "accident" doesn't imply if it's preventable or not.

Talk about arbitrary hill to die on, very inconsequential. Why is this somehow so important?

FWIW, countries like Sweden call them "accidents" yet treat them as preventable and something to aim to minimize, not sure why it'd matter so much if someone call it accident or not.

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