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Uber president says AI spending is getting 'harder to justify'

https://www.theverge.com/transportation/937116/uber-ai-investment-hard-to-justify
I never took tokenmaxxing to be about improving productivity directly; mundane feature work that comes out of it is just a side effect. I always saw it as a race between these big tech companies to get a generational advantage by being the one to discover the way of the future, with respect to harnessing AI to actually and truly automate software development.

EDIT: whoa, I used "way of the future" as a reference to Howard Hughes in "The Aviator", not this Way of the Future religious organization thing I just stumbled on; no intended reference there.

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Now feels like a very good time to be a small team of experienced developers who can largely work on stuff by themselves and not a corporation of hundreds of developers of varying abilities all now trying to show how much code they can generate and how many tokens they can burn.
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Anthropic's annualized run rate is >$40b according to outside reporting. AWS hit that by Q4 2019. There were still debates on public cloud vs on prem at that time, but by late 2019 public cloud had facilitated the creation or adoption of entire categories of software within SaaS and PaaS, not to mention consumer internet businesses like Uber and Airbnb. The net impact of AI coding tools is far more ambiguous in comparison.

The profitability comparison is fraught but worth noting that by then AWS was already extremely profitable.

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What has been the end result of all the tokens companies are burning?

Where does it show up in quarterly results?

I can’t see how it’s sustainable just based on “this feels more productive”

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I am not sure how uber is operating internally around the use of tokens but if they actually shipped features faster than before then it is still a win. if they learn that users don't want these features or want a different version of it; they have learned this new knowledge faster than they would have if they manually coded those features, which means in principle you should be able to iterate faster. but this will collide with creative ceiling that humans exhibit in a span of time and on top of that uber is prioritizing spending money on tokens over humans which seems like a mistake. you need humans for creativity.
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There's also the issue that in any large-ish org, code production is hardly ever the bottleneck.
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I actually think Chinese models have already popped the bubble, we just dont see it yet. the only way to justify AI IPO market cap is basically if they get to hold most sw industry code hostage and then token-flate budgets to collect AI tax. short of that AI expense would very quickly mean revert to model + some margin. this means the moat for AI 'trillion club' is gone. In fact AI virtually guarantees that there is no execution-moat left anywhere, definitely not in code or that engineer with knowledge about that obscure mechanism. without the moat most of the sw ecossytem's margins would shrink (as they should).

Ironically enough the only moat left would be what you can buy from Washington.

I still get picked up by an Uber the same way. As an end user, nothing has changed for me.

So I wonder what the heck were all those billions of AI tokens burnt on that they extinguished it in just 4 months into the year?

This argument is funny because you could have said the same thing 4 years ago: Uber still picks you up just as it did years before that, so what did all those millions spent on developer salaries get them?

Uber’s business is relentlessly confusing for people who think it’s a simple app to send an alert to a nearby driver to pick you up.

Uber operates at a scale where there are no trivial problems because even small changes can impact hundred of thousands of customers. They can also justify spending time and money on new features that only 0.1% of customers might use because 0.1% of their customers is a very large number.

Uber also has to maintain thousands of region specific rules and features to be able to operate globally, and they do it all in the same app instead of having specific regional versions (which would be a terrible user experience for frequent travelers). That alone is a ton of work the end user will never see but is core to their operation.
Apparently:

* In App Hotel bookings in partnership with Expedia.

* Travel Mode with suggestions on where to eat and visit when travelling.

* Eats for the way - your driver picks up a takeaway for you to eat while they drive you to your destination.

* Voice bookings using AI and speech to text.

How did we ever live without them!

> Eats for the way - your driver picks up a takeaway for you to eat while they drive you to your destination.

This seems like the kind of terrible idea that an LLM might have come up with. I'm pretty sure most drivers do not want people eating (especially a whole meal) in their car, and I can't imagine a lot of instances where you're calling an Uber and don't have time to get yourself food, but don't mind waiting an extra 10 minutes for the driver to detour, find parking, and wait for your food.

> I can't imagine a lot of instances where you're calling an Uber and don't have time to get yourself food

Recently I got a car to take me to the train station and picked up food on the way. Seems pretty common to me. Of course, I didn't need or want it charged as a premium feature in the app.

I have never heard of someone doing that tbh, this is the first time.
Not to mention what anyone who's worked in an office with a shared kitchen can tell you - the smell getting into a car where an indeterminate amount of people have eaten different meals. Like climbing into a food court dumpster.
Holy fuck, aside from the voice bookings, that's some useless shit to spend money building as far as both tokens and salaries go.

Are they profitable yet lol

This seems like the doom of all tech companies that hit a single kernel of a good idea, hire a big development team to build it, and then, once it's running well and making money, leadership looks around and sees this big body of developers, product managers, project managers, QA, and management tree, looking around for something else to do. Then, instead of saying, "Let's find the next big thing to do," they say, "Cram dozens more things into the thing that already works. Anything you can think of, spin up a team of 10 to bolt it onto the main product. Move things around to make everything fit. Run experiments on users to see if this new crap moves the metrics. A/B test to see what we should keep and what we should silently remove next update. Attach this other company's product that we just bought."

In a few years, what do you end up with? The modern version of every single fucking app we use today.

Well, travel booking is one of those things every company wants to get involved with because it's just straight referral fees. I get advertisements to book travel through my phone company (T-Mobile US) and a slew of financial services companies.

If it's easy enough to add to the app and sticks around for a while, it may well be profitable even if only a small percentage of customers use it or even realize it's available.

they are very profitable now!
For context, this is an interview where Uber CEO discussed these ideas:

https://www.theverge.com/podcast/922909/dara-khosrowshahi-ub...

Can't say I am convinced.

There's probably tons of backend projects going on, expanding in countries, payments, complying with regulations, effeciency and reliability projects. They also do food delivery. There's a whole engineering team to support
I’d like to remind folks every expert system already knows how the AI hype train always goes.

It’s not a normal tech adoption curve because AI is not an extension of ourselves like a shovel extends our hands or a car our legs. AI hits deep human instincts about what power means and also our antagonism to other hominids.

I do find it to be true that with coding agents the famous quote from Jurassic Park goes through my head multiple time a day

"our scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they never stopped to ask if they should.

I've now come to the realization that if I'm having an llm work constantly all day writing code for me i'm probably doing something wrong as I'm no longer focusing on the core issue itself.

I may be in a minority here in that I write code to augment my self and not to ship to others so I can tell very quickly if I'm just gold platting something or if i'm actually delivering real value to my trading or risk management.

Affordable inference will be around longer if more Big tech companies cap their AI sending.
Goodhart's law strikes again. Stop giving your engineers token-burning quotas or they'll burn tokens.
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It feels like maybe the wheels are starting to fall off the AI hype train. I expect complete collapse once people start figuring out that the numbers on all this don’t make sense. I’m looking for investment portfolios that will weather that storm. If you are reading this and have a similar curiosity, this is a great place to start.

https://portfoliocharts.com/2021/12/16/three-secret-ingredie...

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hot take: token spend can be used a honey pot, especially when compared to what you deliver. spend accordingly!
My concern here is that they'll mix two things:

1) workforce reduction

2) AI spend (reduce tokenmaxing)

They'll expect fewer people to do more with even less, while "more" is continuously increasing.

When I say "more", I mean that the deluge that engineering teams deal with comes from two sources:

1) the business side of companies - marketing, sales, solutions teams, etc.

2) outside actors, mainly security threats

The first source can now move to generate work for engineering faster than ever. They expect the nerds to do what they're told and get the features out now. The more features, the better the product, right? The saving grace here is that they're bound by the same management concerns that engineering has. There's only so much money that they themselves can throw at generating more work for engineering teams, and that might also come under scrutiny from management, so that acts as a brake.

The second source has no such brake, especially not with security threats. Either there's good money to be made by holding company data hostage, or there's an endless supply of resources (read: nation-state resources) dedicated to the effort to attack the company's digital assets. And of course, they're using AI to enable this, just without the "but what about the shareholders!?" handwringing.

If you aren't very, very careful with your token cutting, you're going to put yourself at a disadvantage against that second group.