Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit
What option is there for israel.
Maybe not systematically murdering civilians and stealing their land and homes every day might be a start. Baby steps.
https://www.hamas-massacre.net
Of course, Israel is a pure white dove. For instance, they have rallies for "the right to rape prisoners" (and recently to kill them) [0]. Or to willingly mutilate peaceful protesters presenting no risk[1].

The problem is that the total lack of moral limits in Israel only forces their opponents to escalate, or accept to be treated like animals (in the case of the West Bank Palestinians). It also affects the US, since that they have to follow along with Israel' way of doing the war (mainly, war crimes).

[0]: https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2024/8/13/israeli-p...

[1]: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-ma...

Oh no they are a rotten old pigeon as well and I don't disagree.

What I object to is the "freedom fighters" being painted with moral virtue when they are raping murdering bastards.

The problem is that once a party starts to commit atrocities, all others tend to do it. Atrocities by Israel are not new, and Israel has a long history about it, since its inception:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cast_Thy_Bread

Rather than deshumanizing parties, deescalation is needed to achieve peace. And an end of the US support to Israel.

That is the consequence of a long-term policy. Israel made sure the Palestinian authority was sidelined and helped Hamas get full control of the Gaza Strip. History did not start in October 2023.
Yes I am aware of the full history of the Middle East back to the middle ages...

The problem really kicked off after the Ottoman reform (Tanzimat) period.

We call Hamas "terrorists" for far less than Israel's actions.
[flagged]
For sure my "genocide supporting" brain center took critical damage and is not operational.
As we're talking absolutes clearly, was the Nova music festival massacre justified resistance?
> was the Nova music festival massacre justified resistance

Intentionally killing civilians is never justified. But this still makes Palestine/Hamas the (much) smaller genocidal terrorist in this conflict. Free people don't need freedom fighters ;).

Now, I have no horse in this race, I am not related to any of the peoples involved, and live far away. I'm just the voice that finds genocide wrong. You on the other hand look like you're happily riding the terrorist, genocidal horse. I don't expect anything from you in terms of quality debate.

no massacre is justified, but can you remind us how and where did Hamas get helicopters and tanks and all of a sudden all cars were smashed? maybe Hannibal directive handed them over their tanks
Fair. Clearly they need the land back GOD gave them 3000 years ago.
loading story #47689083
loading story #47687080
Re-integration. One democratic state "from the river to the sea". And leave the neighboring states alone.
This comment is exactly why there is no hope out there. Literally zero understanding of middle-Eastern geopolitics other than trite slogans.

Come on. Do you think everyone is going to suddenly start holding hands and singing kumbaya? Or more realistically, like nearly every other surrounding state it'll be the elimination and exodus of Jews and Israelis?

Carpet bombing, artillery and gunfire hasn’t brought peace, but maybe the next salvo will, right?
Ballistic rockets and massacring people at music festivals don't either.

There's no moral high ground here so don't even pretend there is one.

https://archive.ph/Gsw1y

Hamas didn't have prior knowledge of the festival, and partygoers were also murdered by the Israeli army. And in general flattening entire cities don't leave their habitants very keen toward Israel either. It just reinforces the cycle of aggression, which allows Israel to take more land.

loading story #47687698
That's a crazy way to defend an ongoing genocide. The scale is so different that the only way to miss it is willful bad faith.

How long and how far do you go with that justification? Does it work the other way too? Are "their" actions justified forever because of something wrong that was done to them? Can anyone in the world do to you anything and everything forever if they were ever wronged by someone born in the same general geographic area as you?

Whenever you find yourself defending any genocide, under any excuse, defending the killing of innocent children because some other guys from the same general area also killed people, you are the bigger problem and no amount of fresh accounts justifying it makes you better.

I didn't defend. I just pointed out that the "freedom fighters" in everyone's minds are raping murdering bastards and I refuse to take a moral position and support or defend them for it.

That in itself is an abhorrent position and I am disgusted at anyone who takes it.

And further extrapolation as you edited it, if a child has a gun pointing at your head and has been trained to fire it at you, which is exactly what they have been doing, then they are legally combatants. But it makes a good statistical and PR job which is just as abhorrent. Legally and statistically speakingh, children... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2FezhJgqA

I would not do this to MY children.

> I just pointed out that the "freedom fighters" in everyone's minds are raping murdering bastards

So, like Israeli soldiers?[0]

> if a child has a gun pointing at your head and has been trained to fire it at you, which is exactly what they have been doing

Israelis do exactly the same[1]

As long as Israelis rely on violence, war crimes and human rights violations, there can be no deescalation. We see it in the current ceasefire, where Israelis refused to stop their annexation war (and flattening) of Liban.

[0]https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2024/8/13/israeli-p...

[1]https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170708-israel-gives-sett...

loading story #47687740
> I didn't defend.

Didn't you?

> if a child has a gun pointing at your head

That sure sounds like defending the killing of children because for sure they were all holding a gun and trying to kill you. Including the babies.

If you show all the YouTube videos in the world, the moment when you find a justification to kill any innocent children is when you become irreversibly the problem.

loading story #47687648
loading story #47687274
It's so sad to see this ridiculous argument every time. Israel is the aggressor, the murder and the main threat to the region's peace, not the victim. This, of course, does not mean that Iran is not another threat, but its actions seem like nothing compared to what Israel is doing.
Stop the immortality project and stop the massive suffering happening right now. People should really read "The Denial of Death".
loading story #47687156
Perhaps not be a genocidaire apartheid state?
The only endgame I see for the region is sadly the complete and utter annihilation of all civilizations there, possibly through nuclear means.

I do not say this lightly and I say it with a deep sadness in my heart for the people of the middle east, but also with the sober realization that this is the only end of the path that is currently walked.

loading story #47687369