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Sting famously learned to play bass using this sort of technique with music on LPs, lifting the needle and dropping it back a bit in the track over and over again as he gradually worked out the notes and fingering.

Probably almost any method is effective at learning guitar, as long as it includes the key factor - time spent practicing.

I started playing electric bass in college, around 1984. I too used the record and lifting the needle technique. The only reason I'm commenting is that early on I learned a LOT of Police songs. Why? Because

(1) the songs were already in my head,

(2) Sting would have two or three cool hooks per song, and this is the important part,

(3) the hooks would played over and over during the song. That meant I could play the song all the way through and get to practice each riff 10 times or more with just a single needle lift.

A prime example: Demolition Man (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf7To6vdg7A)

> Probably almost any method is effective at learning guitar, as long as it includes the key factor - time spent practicing.

There are a few pedagogical points here to keep in mind:

first, there are local maxima in terms of learning something like guitar where you get bad habits and the only way to progress is to undo them.

Also, different ways of learning have different values in terms of what goals you're aiming towards and very importantly what kind of practice will keep you motivated in a sustainable way. Sometimes, taking shortcuts in some ways means you might slow down your growth rate but you'll have better overall growth because you'll keep at it for longer

> first, there are local maxima in terms of learning something like guitar where you get bad habits and the only way to progress is to undo them.

I'm not convinced for guitar. Some of the fastest and most famous guitarists had shockingly bad technique.

As long as you're not injuring yourself, practice and determination pretty much overcomes everything.

> Some of the fastest and most famous guitarists had shockingly bad technique.

The universe didn't offer a manual on how to play guitar, so how are you determining that their technique was bad? Given what you say about them, maybe they actually had the perfect technique?

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I see this "bad technique" angle expressed quite often when talking about self-learning. I tend to think it is overblown a bit. I started learning piano by myself during covid. Then I went to two teachers. Neither one had anything bad to say about my technique.
> as long as it includes the key factor - time spent practicing.

And at least for me, frequency beats duration. I make more progress when I play consistently for even 10 minutes every day than when I play for 90 minutes on Sunday afternoon.

Add some distance and sensitivity. I used blunt / brute force repetitions and somehow wasted years. Music is very subtle, and keeping a focus on small details is worth thousands of hours.
My music teacher said that practice does not produce perfection, only perfect practice produces perfection.

If you mess up, redo the part you messed up correctly 5 times in a row.

And, don't just practice the easy stuff. You have to challenge yourself to grow.

>If you mess up, redo the part you messed up correctly 5 times in a row.

I think it may be important to note _when_ to redo this. I started off this way, but after working with a guitar teacher (a Berklee graduate), he recommended that I continue on with the song and return to the problematic parts afterwards. If you constantly stop at the problematic parts to replay them and get it right, you'll have no idea what other parts you'll have trouble with further into the song until much later. In addition to that, being able to move on and continue playing the song after making a mistake is an important skill itself. If you build that skill, it's usually only other musicians that will notice -- a regular audience won't.

What's your take on it?

I can be pretty bizarre without even trying, I'll take both ;)

Practice makes perfect is a thing, but that's not exactly rehearsal.

With practice you expect to improve, broaden, or maintain instrumental or musical ability for the long term. There should be no deadlines or need for actual listenability.

OTOH rehearsal is the run-up to a smooth listenable performance with a decidedly short-term objective by comparison. Unless you are rehearsing to absolute perfection, you do not halt for anything, the show must go on and that in itself requires you to practice covering up and compensating for your mistakes or shortcomings as you go along.

With practice you are actually trying to become a better player overall, but rehearsal is more about making the next performance as good as it can be and that's it.

If you're not actually as good as you would like in either regard, having a bit of commitment to simulating what you need most can give some direction itself to add to the mix.

As somebody who started teaching himself guitar as a teenager, put it down for 10+ years and started back up, this resonates.

Everything takes twice as long to learn because I first have to unlearn the old habits.

Yes. Put another way: Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.

And as my music professor once said: "If you sound good while practicing, then you're not practicing."

Guess I’m practicing right
Time is the largest factor though. Some ways are better than others but there is no substitiute for time.

why am I posting here instead of practicing?

Practice make permanent.
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practice makes perverts
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That's called ear training and it's crucial. I don't think all ways one can play and call it "practice" are equal