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There's absolutely no reason to use /e/ when GrapheneOS exists.

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

But GrapheneOS doesn't exist. It works only on a few devices created by Google, so their claim of being degoogled is a bit funny.
Google's hardware is just hardware. It is not locked down like the hardware of many other manufacturers. Moreover, it's the only such hardware which also allows you, the user, to lock it down for your own security. GrapheneOS is not just focused around avoiding Google, it's more accurately focused around security and user choice.

The goal is to give you the option to avoid needing to rely on Google's spying or services while not having to compromise on security.

None of these other solutions regularly get included in Celebrite's documentation as being an explicit benchmark of their software's ability to break into phones. And that's almost certainly due to the fact that unless you leverage hardware security features like what GrapheneOS (and stock Android on a Pixel, and iOS on an iPhone) utilises, you have no chance of going against any actual adversaries.

And I'm not just talking about state actors here, even drive-by opportunistic attacks are likelier on a random other phone running some other Android build.

So yeah, you are running Google hardware, that doesn't make you "googled". It's just a sad reflection on the reality of the hardware landscape. If you want the same security as what GrapheneOS offers, you will currently need to use a Pixel.

I'd be curious to see what comes out of their Motorola partnership though.

A large part of "degoogling" to me means "stop giving google money" and "cut off Google entirely from my life".

If I have to give Google a lot of money every 4-6 years to remain "de-googled" then I never was.

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I must agree, you are right, GOS is only on Pixel phones.

But we have to keep in mind that /e/ has a lot of problems, the only one solved is sending data to Google. The security aspect of the OS is problematic and some key elements of a privacy seem questioning (AI integration, commercial collaborations, ...).

Fix: IA => AI typo and various English errors.

Like what problems? I am using /e/ daily for myself and my family, and it's working like a charm.
Uploading speech-to-text to OpenAI? Regular communication with Google? Using Google for assisted GPS? Giving a bunch of Google apps privileged access (if you need them for e.g. Android Auto)?

https://www.kuketz-blog.de/e-datenschutzfreundlich-bedeutet-...

https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/GmsCore/-/blob/a9e102567518...

https://forum.fairphone.com/t/e-os-betrays-users-privacy-ope...

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

Well and besides that only shipping ASBs and no other security updates outside major Android releases (and both usually late). Using heavily outdated kernel trees (e.g. FP4 is using a Linux kernel patch level that hasn't been updated since 2020!), outdated vendor firmware blobs, etc.

It might work, but it is not very secure, nor very private.

The OS is working well, but have privacy and security concerns. Is it better than a stock OS? I don't know, maybe, maybe not, it depends on the stock OS.
What IA?
/e/OS speech to text uploads your speech to OpenAI. (I think IA was a typo.)
Yeah, it's a typo (I'm french speaking, AI is IA in french and sometime I type it in french instead of english).
Ugh. Thanks. Hard pass here.
Reading the links posted in a sibling thread it only does it if you have text to speech enabled and they use an anonymizing proxy so openai can't associate sessions with any particular user ie it's not perfectly anonymous and private but I don't see how you could have totally anonymous and private until you have a fully offline on-device TTS model, which the fairphone guy said they tried and didn't feel it was up to scratch.

I don't use e/os but it doesnt' seem like a terrible compromise to me personally.

It is not even imperfectly private. Every word gets heard by a partner of a kakistocratic foriegn regime.

> don't see how you could have totally anonymous and private until you have a fully offline on-device TTS model

Yes, and? PCs that have have had that for decades - despite orders of magnitude less platform capability.

/e/OS is Android, meaning it's still critically dependent on goodwill of Google to continue releasing their work as part of AOSP.

So if you're trying to be a silly purist, then /e/OS doesn't fit either. If you're not, getting a Pixel will significantly enhance your safety since they're better supported for security patches and better designed in hardware when it comes to security.

> /e/OS is Android

So is GrapheneOS

> So if you're trying to be a silly purist

Could you not do this? There's no need to be hostile to people who purer than you are.

It's fine if you want to make a pragmatic decision to do what works now, but you depend on people who to some degree don't want to compromise. But I always suspect this type of hostility comes from guilt being directed outward; what you actually should want to do instead is support people who are refusing to compromise and building alternatives (even if those alternatives are just ways to get things done without phones.) You will need them one day.

The idea about being dependent on Google to continue to allow you to be hostile to Google on their hardware is intrinsically not sustainable.

You're basically the same as an somebody using whatever the phone company installs mocking somebody who would dare install GrapheneOS, or even an iPhone person ridiculing somebody for using Android at all. What's the use of that?

Let's explore this a little further.

I think it is legitimate to be a purist about smartphones, but I don't think the GP is. So, let's talk about the non-purist situation: Users like us want to de-google. But we are not willing to make all of the sacrifices that purists do. The question is then, what can we use (and - what projects can we support financially).

Now, we can use GrapheneOS if we have Google Pixel's. But - most people don't have those phones, for any number of reasons. One of them is price, by the way: You can get a decent smartphone for under 100 USD and even a half-decent one for 70 USD. And most people in the world are not in an economic situation where you can tell them "shell out 300 USD and buy a Google Pixel".

Moreover - suggesting we strengthen our ties to Google in order to de-Google is fundamentally problematic. Even if we're not going all the way, we are striving to distance ourselves from them.

So, an imperfect software solution for a wider selection of phones does sound quite useful. Change my mind! :-)

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Literally announced today partnership with Motorola to bring it to their devices.
GOS is degoogled in all the ways that I care about - it's about the data they can gather. Among all the smartphone options that I consider usable day to day (leaving only Android and iOS at the moment), GOS is the most private and secure.
> their claim of being degoogled is a bit funny.

I don't think they use this term anywhere.

It also now works on Motorola devices, it's on my HN feed literally right above this post.

I have no idea where you got this information - the HN post is about partnership. It does not work on Motorola devices, at least not yet [1].

[1] https://grapheneos.org/releases

It doesn't "now work"; it may work on a future Motorola device that doesn't exist yet.
It doesn't yet work on Motorola devices.

It is going to become available on selected Motorola devices at some point in the future.

> It also now works on Motorola devices, it's on my HN feed literally right above this post.

Did you read the article you mentioned? There's not yet a single non-Google device that can run GrapheneOS.

The post about Graphene partnering with Motorola is right about this one, currently, (Lenovo bought Motorola from Google in 2014.), so that point will no longer be valid as soon as they ship something.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47214645

Not everything have to be perfect.

For some user, /e/ is more approachable (Friendly and colorful UI)

I could not get my mother to use GrapheneOS, /e/ is a lot simpler.

Still miles better than to use a Default ROM from most OEM.

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As someone who switched from FP4 with /e/OS to GrapheneOS - absolutely not true.

My reason for switching was a bug where the phone calls didn't display the caller number. So I switched to GOS in hope it would be better... and it is, but not in all areas. For example their insistence on not supporting MicroG leads to poor UX, because let's face it, you can't trust Google services, even sandboxed, to not syphon tons of data into the cloud. MicroG was easybto use for privacy. They also seem to be very opinionated about (not) using a firewall for privacy, like NetGuard, instead recommending some weird alternatives like DNS firewalls. And don't get me started on their icons - I don't mind ugly-ish icons, but they are taking the ugliness to a whole new level.

GrapheneOS is not a bad OS, but it is very opinionated, and they (heavily) prioritize security over privacy. When I turn FP4 on, I still like it way better than GOS. Still, I like seeing who is calling, so I'm not going back... Ymmv.

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Even on non-pixel devices, unless you really want to use the /e/ "ecosystem, there are probably better options like LineageOS for microG iodéOS.

(/e/ used to be heavily based on an outdated version of LineageOS for microG. I'm not sure what the current state is after I settled on second-hand pixel with graphene)

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There is when you have a phone that isn't a pixel.
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There absolutely is when your concern is not only moving away from Google but also using sustainable hardware like Fairphone, which GrapheneOS doesn't support afaik.
Unless you own some obscure phone that is not supported by GOS, Calyx or Iode, but is by /e/... Not sure how many of those exist...
is "/e/ supports my phone while graphene only supports google pixels" not a good reason?
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And even if GOS doesn't support your device (due to minimum security requirements) why not use upstream LineageOS?
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