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LLMs won’t lead to AGI. Almost by definition, they can’t. The thought experiment I use constantly to explain this:

Train an LLM on all human knowledge up to 1905 and see if it comes up with General Relativity. It won’t.

We’ll need additional breakthroughs in AI.

It's not obvious why it wouldn't, especially if it gets to read Poincaré and Riemann.
I'm not sure - with tool calling, AI can both fetch and create new context.
It still can't learn. It would need to create content, experiment with it, make observations, then re-train its model on that observation, and repeat that indefinitely at full speed. That won't work on a timescale useful to a human. Reinforcement learning, on the other hand, can do that, on a human timescale. But you can't make money quickly from it. So we're hyper-tweaking LLMs to make them more useful faster, in the hopes that that will make us more money. Which it does. But it doesn't make you an AGI.
It can learn. When my agents makes mistake they update their memories and will avoid making the same mistakes in the future.

>Reinforcement learning, on the other hand, can do that, on a human timescale. But you can't make money quickly from it.

Tools like Claude Code and Codex have used RL to train the model how to use the harness and make a ton of money.

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When did AGI start meaning ASI?

LLMs are artificial general intelligence, as per the Wikipedia definition:

> generalise knowledge, transfer skills between domains, and solve novel problems without task‑specific reprogramming

Even GPT-3 could meet that bar.

Wtf? Once it was AI. Then the models started passing the Turing test and calling themselves AI, so we started using AGI to say "truly intelligent machines". Now, as per the definition you quoted, apparently even GPT-3 is AGI, so we now have to use "ASI" to mean "intelligent, but artificial"?

I think I'll just keep using AI and then explain to anyone who uses that term that there is no "I" in today's LLMs, and they shouldn't use this term for some years at least. And that when they can, we will have a big problem.

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That's an assertion, not a thought experiment. You can't logically reach the conclusion ("It won't") by thinking about it. But it doesn't sound so grand if you say "The assertion I use constantly to explain this".
To be fair, the post being replied to is arguing by assertion as well. "The core ideas are all there" is pure if-you-say-so stuff.
> Train an LLM on all human knowledge up to 1905 and see if it comes up with General Relativity. It won’t.

Same thing is true for humans.

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Part of the issue there is that the data quantity prior to 1905 is a small drop in the bucket compared to the internet era even though the logical rigor is up to par.
Yet the humans of the time, a small number of the smartest ones, did it, and on much less training data than we throw at LLMs today.

If LLMs have shown us anything it is that AGI or super-human AI isn't on some line, where you either reach it or don't. It's a much higher dimensional concept. LLMs are still, at their core, language models, the term is no lie. Humans have language models in their brains, too. We even know what happens if they end up disconnected from the rest of the brain because there are some unfortunate people who have experienced that for various reasons. There's a few things that can happen, the most interesting of which is when they emit grammatically-correct sentences with no meaning in them. Like, "My green carpet is eating on the corner."

If we consider LLMs as a hypertrophied langauge model, they are blatently, grotesquely superhuman on that dimension. LLMs are way better at not just emitting grammatically-correct content but content with facts in them, related to other facts.

On the other hand, a human language model doesn't require the entire freaking Internet to be poured through it, multiple times (!), in order to start functioning. It works on multiple orders of magnitude less input.

The "is this AGI" argument is going to continue swirling in circles for the forseeable future because "is this AGI" is not on a line. In some dimensions, current LLMs are astonishingly superhuman. Find me a polyglot who is truly fluent in 20 languages and I'll show you someone who isn't also conversant with PhD-level topics in a dozen fields. And yet at the same time, they are clearly sub-human in that we do hugely more with our input data then they do, and they have certain characteristic holes in their cognition that are stubbornly refusing to go away, and I don't expect they will.

I expect there to be some sort of AI breakthrough at some point that will allow them to both fix some of those cognitive holes, and also, train with vastly less data. No idea what it is, no idea when it will be, but really, is the proposition "LLMs will not be the final manifestation of AI capability for all time" really all that bizarre a claim? I will go out on a limb and say I suspect it's either only one more step the size of "Attention is All You Need", or at most two. It's just hard to know when they'll occur.

Humans need way less data. Just compare Waymo to average 16 year-old with car.
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> Train an LLM on all human knowledge up to 1905 and see if it comes up with General Relativity. It won’t.

AGI just means human level intelligence. I couldn't come up with General Relativity. That doesn't mean I don't have general intelligence.

I don't understand why people are moving the goalposts.

A 4 year old is currently more capable than LLMs (I'm not making this up, ask Yann LeCun). You're going to need it to reach at least "adult" level to be general intelligence.
I'd argue they are clarifying the goalposts with aplomb.
> AGI just means human level intelligence.

It seems more like people haven't decided on what the goal post is. If AGI is just another human, that's pretty underwhelming. That's why people are imagining something that surpasses humans by heaps and bounds in terms of reasoning, leading to wondrous new discoveries.

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The 1905 thought experiment actually cuts both ways. Did humans "invent" the airplane? We watched birds fly for thousands of years — that's training data. The Wright brothers didn't conjure flight from pure reasoning, they synthesized patterns from nature, prior failed attempts, and physics they'd absorbed. Show me any human invention and I'll show you the training data behind it.

Take the wheel. Even that wasn't invented from nothing — rolling logs, round stones, the shape of the sun. The "invention" was recognizing a pattern already present in the physical world and abstracting it. Still training data, just physical and sensory rather than textual.

And that's actually the most honest critique of current LLMs — not that they're architecturally incapable, but that they're missing a data modality. Humans have embodied training data. You don't just read about gravity, you've felt it your whole life. You don't just know fire is hot, you've been near one. That physical grounding gives human cognition a richness that pure text can't fully capture — yet.

Einstein is the same story. He stood on Faraday, Maxwell, Lorentz, and Riemann. General Relativity was an extraordinary synthesis — not a creation from void. If that's the bar for "real" intelligence, most humans don't clear it either. The uncomfortable truth is that human cognition and LLMs aren't categorically different. Everything you've ever "thought" comes from what you've seen, heard, and experienced. That's training data. The brain is a pattern-recognition and synthesis machine, and the attention mechanism in transformers is arguably our best computational model of how associative reasoning actually works.

So the question isn't whether LLMs can invent from nothing — nothing does that, not even us.

Are there still gaps? Sure. Data quality, training methods, physical grounding — these are real problems. But they're engineering problems, not fundamental walls. And we're already moving in that direction — robots learning from physical interaction, multimodal models connecting vision and language, reinforcement learning from real-world feedback. The brain didn't get smart because it has some magic ingredient. It got smart because it had millions of years of rich, embodied, high-stakes training data. We're just earlier in that journey with AI. The foundation is already there — AGI isn't a question of if anymore, it's a question of execution.

Nice ChatGPT answer. Put some real thought and data in it too.
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> Einstein is the same story. He stood on Faraday, Maxwell, Lorentz, and Riemann.

Yes, which is available to the model as data prior to 1905.