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ty6853 | on: TikTok goes dark in the US
The cost of free speech, including commercial or propaganda, is people get manipulated by it. Some including myself argue is you end up with even more nefarious control when censored, rather than having the option of which if any propaganda apps you want to consume.

There are some controls like certain pornography, but if these exist they should apply uniformly, not based on whether we like the person publishing it.

grajaganDev | parent
I am concerned that our elections could be and have been distorted by our adversaries using TikToc and other platforms.

I am not OK with that.

coldpie | root | parent | next
I'm concerned about this, too, but this law actually gives the nation's most powerful adversaries even more power by eliminating their competition.
grajaganDev | root | parent
Are you referring to Russia and Iran?
coldpie | root | parent
No, primarily Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, and other big tech execs to a lesser extent.
grajaganDev | root | parent
Thank you for clarifying - I disagree with your point.

China is far, far more powerful than Zuck or Musk.

coldpie | root | parent
China can't directly influence US policy, and they mostly don't have any interest in doing so outside how it influences our trade relations. Sure, it's bad if they're doing that. But Musk, Zuckerberg, and the rest of the ultra-wealthy are directly creating US policy, both by serving in unelected advisory positions and by outright buying US politicians. Just like China, they are not working for America's interests, they are working for their own interests. They are removing hard-won safeguards for their employees, their customers, and Americans in general; and they are removing accountability for themselves so they can exercise that power over the people who live in the US with impunity.

US billionaires are far more dangerous to US residents than China is, and this law gives them even more influence than they already had by removing the only significant competitor that was not owned by a US billionaire. If this law had impacted all social media equally, I would be a huge advocate. But as it is, it's just another handout to the US's richest and most influential people. It's a bad law, and will make life worse for the people who live in the US.

grajaganDev | root | parent
>If this law had impacted all social media equally, I would be a huge advocate.

I would as well and it is unfortunate that we haven't/can't pass such a law. Hopefully someday we can.

I support the TikTok ban in the meantime.

Timber-6539 | root | parent
You are basically saying American adults are impressionable children hence cannot be trusted to participate in elections held by US electoral institutions.
photonthug | root | parent | next
And you are basically saying that despite decades of focused high-stakes research into the matter, propaganda doesn't work at all on the masses, and that algorithmic manipulation of people is simply impossible? How could anyone take that idea seriously.. global advertising spend is approaching like a trillion dollars every year.
Timber-6539 | root | parent
Why not call for the dismantling of the global advertising networks in the US rather than Tiktok since you think it is a giant propaganda machine?

Saying a foreign nation has the capability to brainwash your citizens into making a vote is propaganda by itself. It's not only cheap and imbecilic, it's a waste of everybody's time.

photonthug | root | parent | next
It’s not cheap, that’s the point.. ads as an industry moves more money every year than the pentagon. That’s a lot of people betting that algorithmic influence campaigns work. Are you saying everyone is wrong about this but you, or is your position is that influence campaigns work for brands but not for nation states? Or nation states would not try? Or what?
grajaganDev | root | parent
>Why not call for the dismantling of the global advertising networks in the US

Yes, we should do this also.

grajaganDev | root | parent | next
I am saying that but would prefer to state it this way:

Individuals are not equipped to recognized and counter the effects of highly sophisticated influence operations run by adversaries with enormous resources.

alickz | root | parent
Americans are humans and all humans are susceptible to advertising/propaganda
bdangubic | root | parent | next
so we ban all advertising/“propaganda”? who gets to decide what is or isn’t propaganda if we gonna ban it?
alickz | root | parent
> who gets to decide what is or isn’t propaganda if we gonna ban it?

in a representative republic that would ideally be the elected representatives

groggo | root | parent
this is the cost of free speech. it has to be, or free speech is meaningless. yes speech influences people.