Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit
I clicked open the link to find Yahoo has gone dark in China since 2021. Doesn’t work even with a VPN. I miss the good old days of the Web.
The chasm between the current tech world's culture and Barlow's "A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace" is really jarring
> "We will create a civilization of the Mind in Cyberspace"

I remember reading this in my mid-teens and it really speaking to me.

Sometimes we tend to forget: nobody is forcing us to use the crap that "the Internet" has become home to.

The Internet isn't the content, it's the network - the map is not the territory and the underlying architecture hasn't changed all that much.

There will always be room to carve out your space and find your people.

> There will always be room to carve out your space and find your people.

That's definitely true. However, what changed is that you didn't really need that 20 years ago to achieve the same thing. It definitely needs more energy and time to get that. 20 years ago you had to go to bullshit sites, now the bullshit comes to you.

During and before StumbleUpon times, when I visited a random site, there was a good chance, that I could trust in the information on that, at least on some level. That's basically 0 for a while now.

Then I started to carve out that space on some selected social media. In the past 5 years, most of the smart people just simply left. Also those spaces (especially when those places became more popular) are slowly flooded with unusable information/misinformation/simple lies shared by others, even from people who I trusted.

Now, even that kind of "carving" is even more difficult, with keeping the possibility to get to know new people. For example, TikTok's, YouTube's, BlueSky's, and Twitter's algorithm are terrible. I tried to teach them with brand new accounts, but they became either very boring quickly, or couldn't filter out even very obvious misinformation.

I mean there is still the FSF and there are plenty of interesting projects working in the decentralizing space.

My point it's just really moved to the periphery and is a subculture (and tied to crypto, which has a lot of shady things associated with it). The mainstream tech culture seems extremely nationalistic and terrified of the possibilities of a supranational unregulated unmoderated internet

It was inevitable. Human affairs outside brief chaotic periods are typically regulated in terms of 'legitimate' authorities. The presice constitution of such authority has changed over the aeons (bloodlines, theology etc) but in the modern world has settled on the nation-state. Everything, from the exercise of power, to the financial system and granting licenses to operate is granted by the state.

In retrospect what is surprising is how long it took for such a disruptive new technology to register with existing power structures (at least explicitly).

Decentralisation projects are trying to solve the problem of massive scale without central control.

Why are we trying to build a single unified platform for everything?

Maybe the friction of having different networks/applications based on the specific subculture/group you wish to associate with keeps them all a little less mainstream? Maybe this is a good thing?

Yeah, keeping it within a subculture has its benefits. I don't mean to be overly judgmental or saying how things should be.

I just wouldn't have guessed thing would have gone this way. I'd argue that the early Google was a bit of this nerd ethos going mainstream. And the degeneration was not top down from MBAs as one would predict, but seemingly from the bottom up from a new generation of programmers that don't seem to be in that supranational mindset

Being non mainstream also does present some issues. For instance I'm in China traveling at the moment. Github isn't blocked here but the connection is very flakey and some days it doesn't load at all. But effectively all OSS dev happens on github so I'm just out of luck. It'd be cool if there was some way to torrent repos for instance, but I don't think that's a service hooked up to github in any way

There's a middle ground where you get the worst of all worlds bc the current kinds lame/oring solution works for 90% of people most of the time

Anyway, it is what it is. You don't choose the jungle you live in

>In 2004, Barlow reflected on his 1990s work, specifically regarding his optimism. His response was that "we all get older and smarter"

Cyberpunk was already a well established genre in 96, if you didn't see what the net was going to turn into you were already high on your own hopium.

>In 2004, Barlow reflected on his 1990s work, specifically regarding his optimism. His response was that "we all get older and smarter"

...and then he wrote Mother American Night, which is way more radical and prescient than his declaration. If you are suggesting that John Perry's work tended toward statist notions of internet control later in life, you are mistaken.

Barlow's vision is alive and well. Go to a Billy Strings show and talk to bluegrass hacker hippies that ride the rail there. Or a good traditional Grateful Dead cover band. Or go to one of the more regen/cypherpunk ethereum events (GFEL, Regens Unite, Schelling Point, etc).

John Perry has tons of fans who came up through his songs and have since connected those dots.

https://justinholmes.bandcamp.com/track/barlows-jig

{"deleted":true,"id":42759136,"parent":42753531,"time":1737307573,"type":"comment"}
The cognitive dissonance is stunning. China is a closed system, corrupt, opaque, and doing business there risks being murdered if you don’t grease the right palms. Or if you greased the right palms today, but in 5 years you bribed someone who’s out of favor, could get death.

Chinese business crying foul over simply forcing an app to change owners is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

They even had 4 years to IPO, it's not like the ban was unknown.
The IPO is blocked because of the threat from US government.
They had months to sell TikToc and chose not to.
The irony is not lost on this oldie either. We used to truly be anonymous. No real names. No photos or videos posted online. JavaScript was limited to the wonders of DHTML. Web pages were documents. Everything felt decentralized, as was intended. I really miss those days. Ok, not the under construction animated gifs, but everything else.
Except for that time browsers used to send your PII along with requests
Funny enough, the very first foreign chat room that I've ever visited was hosted by Yahoo.com. Seeing people on the other side of globe talk shit feels kind magical, through that you reflect and gain idea of improvements, and it shapes your world view with a more complete (good and bad) picture.

Now days we have way more advanced self-media platforms, but each one is just an island of (both platform-imposed and self-imposed) isolation.

The link is to techcrunch and doesn't mention yahoo. All websites work with VPN in China, as long as the VPN itself isn't blocking them.
Maybe Yahoo owns TechCrunch. Perhaps they’re detecting access from China based on more than just IP address. Since Yahoo was grilled for handing over dissidents’ info to the Party they really went the extra mile to distance itself from China. They even blocked Engadget from China.