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medo-bear | on: Trump wins presidency for second time
No one (great majority of people) in the EU wanted/wants this war. It was a dish put on the stove put by the hawks in Obama administration. But I think it is way too naive to think US can just pull out. They are far too financially invested. The question is, ia Ukraine too big to fail for US imperialism
luuurker | parent | next
Russia invades Ukraine (2014), launches a full scale invasion (2022), talks about fluid borders, and so on... but of course tankies blame "US imperialism". It's everyone's fault, everyone's but the country doing the invading part. lol.
medo-bear | root | parent
Only naive people can think that the prior government would have been brought down without substantial US support

...

This is not about what Russia is doing. Russia, like the US, is an imperial power that cares little about the rights of other. This is about the US testing how much it can get away with by enroaching on what it mistakenly thought was a much weaker Russia than it turned out. And Ukranians are paying the price in blood, often against their will.

luuurker | root | parent
Again shifting all blame to the US without mentioning what Russia is doing... I'd call you biased, but this feels more than that.

The US supports what benefits them, so I'm sure they were supporting the opposition. Russia was supporting the then president Yanukovych because that was the best for them. That's what countries do.

The protests started when Yanukovych decided to cancel the EU - Ukraine Association Agreement[0] to go do a similar agreement with Russia[1]. Now, while the US might be supporting the opposition, this decision was made by the government supported by Russia in a country that was turning to the EU for a long time (the exception was the Donbas and Crimea)... of course people were going to protest. After what they experienced in the 90's and early 00's, with many working in the EU for a while and seeing it as a better option, are you surprised that many would want to be aligned with the EU?

How do you go from a protest to killing protestors? That I don't know. Are you going to blame the US for the actions of the Russia-backed government? Maybe they were also part of the conspiracy... /s

In any case, this doesn't justify Russia's invasion of Crimea or the infiltration of the Donbas which preceded many of the horrors that are now known. Their actions and their president history lessons are examples of the imperialism you blame the US for. As someone that seems to have a problem with imperialism, you should be criticising them, but are not... why is that?

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1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customs_Union_of_the_Eurasian_...

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huhtenberg | parent
Nobody ever wants a war.

However the world let the annexation of Crimea slide in 2014 and that emboldened Russia. Let them chop off a piece of Ukraine now and that will embolden them even more. After all Finland was a province of the Russian Empire before the revolution of 1917 and parts of Poland were under Soviet's control prior to 1941. And that's without going back into middle ages. Lots of places to take back.

krick | root | parent | next
You (and people like you) are way too bold to allow yourself to speak for "the world" or for "the EU". As a member of the world and the EU, I'll say that I personally never wanted for my taxes to be spent to prolong this war. Moreover, if it turns out, as you suspect, it all can change on a whim of a president of the USA, it logically follows it never in fact was "the world" or "the EU" who decided that in the first place. It definitely wasn't mine decision, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't yours.

In fact, it won't even really be the voting citizens of the USA who make any decisions, because when red/blue splits 50/50 it isn't "tyranny of the majority" anymore, it's tyranny of luck.

huhtenberg | root | parent
I was nowhere close to "speaking for the world". I merely stated an obvious fact - one country chopped off a piece of another and it got off scot-free.

Re: your taxes - it'd be prudent to look beyond short-term effects and consider what different scenarios would lead to in the long-term. The EU had no choice but to help Ukraine to resist. Consider where things would've been now if they didn't.

medo-bear | root | parent
The EU begrudgingly gives assistance to Ukraine, because the US forces them to
medo-bear | root | parent
The irony for Ukranian nationalists is that Lenin gave them their state, and another Communist later gifted them Crimea. Today they are fighting for things Communists gave them. Even most of their buildings and homes were made in Communist times. But they tear down staues of their fathers
joshlemer | root | parent
Yes, their "fathers", that also intentionally starved millions of them to death in one of the worst genocides in world history.
medo-bear | root | parent
Some interesting facts about that. The guy running the state at that time was Georgian. It was not Ukranians per se that were targeted by government policy of collectivization, it was the land owning peasant class, kulaks. Whether the famine itself was intentional is very debatable ie it wasnt an official policy to kill people