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ookblah | on: Trump wins presidency for second time
I bought that line in 2016 and again in 2020. I'm not saying I'm done with trying to understand, but that level of fks to give is very minimal now.

Obviously, I don't think 50% of the population is stupid, but every time I try to "understand" it's becoming increasingly clear it's about his "charisma" and "our team" and less about hard policies.

People out here voting against their own interests or blaming things on ignorance (inflation, etc.).

manquer | parent | next
> 50% of the population is stupid

That would be the charitable interpretation, the alternate is that they are knowingly misogynistic, deeply racist and have strong fascist leanings to follow a flawed corrupt politician with cult-like devotion.

a2tech | root | parent | next
It’s clear that people hunger for the lash. It’s the only thing that makes sense.
Rinzler89 | root | parent | next
That's why Kamala lost: they called supporters of the other camp racist and misogynists like you're doing right now instead of discussing and listening to their grievances.

Shitting on your voter base is no way to win sympathy.

astrange | root | parent | next
The marginal voter doesn't have grievances like that unless the country is seriously in trouble (like it was in 2008 and 2020.) They're not paying close enough attention to have them, nor do they have clear ideas about which piece of government is capable of addressing which problems. They have better things to do.

If you talk to the median voter their thinking will be like "something happened three years ago I was mad about" or "my husband wants us to vote this way because he saw it on TV" or "the Democrats want to legalize incest" or "I like voting for whoever I think is going to win" (and yes these are all real.) They especially do not have coherent opinions on economic policy.

Mainly the problem is the US doesn't have a coherent media ecosystem anymore and Republicans were better aligned with newer media, ie Facebook posts and bro-y podcasts like Rogan. So TV ads and "ground game" don't work.

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EricDeb | root | parent | next
You have no idea if thats why she lost. Thats why you want to believe she lost but it could be things like inflation, immigration, and not having clear messaging. Also not distinguishing herself from an otherwise unpopular president.
mrkeen | root | parent | next
If what you say is true, that only confirms the point.
manquer | root | parent
We should hear their grievances on our bodily autonomy and healthcare ?

There are aspects where we can compromise, or empathize and learn to live together on such as economy or immigration, basic human decency and healthcare are not it.

Also bit rich that we have to listen to their grievances, they haven't afforded anyone that courtesy, or respected the process of democracy.

If the results were other way round, we would be hearing conspiracy theories about election interference non stop. You can only compromise with people acting in good faith, it is clear that majority of Americans don't want to do that.

conradfr | root | parent | next
But how Obama and Biden got elected then?
manquer | root | parent
They were both men, it should be obvious .

Misogynistic was my first qualifier, it is not an coincidence that Trump has won only against women twice, and it is not an oversight that in 250 years America is nowhere close to electing a woman president.

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jajko | root | parent | next
Maybe mankind ain't yet so developed that what you list isn't present in general population in large numbers, even majority.

Echo chambers like HN or typical workplace of typical HN user give skewed image how much rational folks out there generally are. Most people that I ever met are trivially susceptible to smart manipulation via emotions, even to the point of shooting their own foot.

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refurb | root | parent | next
"Am I out of touch? No, it's the American voter who is wrong"
tomcam | root | parent
You are so right. Thank heavens she was defeated.
laborcontract | parent | next
I've read people say this over and over. And yet, I don't know of any single substantive position that Kamala has taken. She chose a vibes fight and she lost.
j-krieger | root | parent | next
The common answer to that was often "just read this 90 page document where she vaguely describes her opinions". This isn't how it works, people.
therouwboat | root | parent | next
Do you wait for candidate to come tell you their position? Even in smaller elections, I feel like its my job to find "my candidate".
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johnny22 | root | parent | next
middle class taxes cuts, bringing back roe v wade.. all that..
slothtrop | root | parent
She was weak on messaging, but her proposal for housing was good (improving affordability has appeal, but she failed to capitalize on it). What confounded this in part was that she probably meant to mostly stay in line with Biden's policies, and you can't connect with voters on that. They're concerned about inflation and the border. Biden's administration already fucked that up for her; they fixed the border, but too little too late (so what is there to say?), and while inflation has abated and wage-growth has improved, people still feel poorer than before 2020 (so what is there to say?).

I can't see how anyone else in her position would have done much better. I don't blame Harris much.

XenophileJKO | parent | next
I think the lesson is you can't win an election with "Well they aren't like the other guy.."
willvarfar | root | parent | next
The last 20 years of the UK is an interesting rollercoaster.

There was a massive international financial crisis that outed the Labour government and brought in a Tory/Lib Dem coalition government based on promises of government austerity.

There was an independence referendum in Scotland where the main campaign point for staying with England was to ensure they stayed in the EU etc.

Then the Tories managed to pin the blame for the failings of the coalition on the minor partner and drew a line under that for the next election.

Then there's brexit, which was really a vote to put an end to bickering inside the Tory party. But the population, narrowly voted to leave the EU! This was very much a protest vote.

Then there's a utter crazy story of quick rotation of prime ministers and scandal and sleeze and very very poorly-received budgets and things.

So then this year Labour are back, and their main strategy was 'at least we're not the Tories'. They are not popular, but they are not the incumbents.

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TheCoelacanth | root | parent | next
Also can't win with substantive policies or personal integrity either, so what's left?
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YeGoblynQueenne | root | parent | next
That's exactly how Keir Starmer's Labour won the last UK elections: "we're not like the Tories".
ks2048 | root | parent
I think that's mainly why Biden won in 2020.
ks2048 | parent | next
Of course 50% of the population is not stupid. It's much higher than that.
gitremote | parent
The problem really is that we need to accept that they are "stupid" but in an empathetic way, remembering that we were once stupid and ignorant. We took it for granted that other people wouldn't confuse correlation with causation, blaming Biden's presidency for inflation. But all of us thought correlation was causation at one point until somebody educated us on science. When a topic was confusing and complicated, we leaned on correlation to guide us until we learned better in formal education. It would be immensely difficult to explain to someone why groceries have become unaffordable without extensive exposition, but it's a hard problem that we should try to solve instead of just calling people ignorant in frustration.