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What comes across from the article to me is the class barrier more than the gender one - basically it's a posh person finding out what the "real world" looks like.

Shop talk and banter are fairly universal. Any difference is going to be a target. Thin bloke who doesn't look strong enough? Ginger hair? Tall guy, short guy? Weird tattoo, etc. Definitely the one black guy or the one white guy is going to get shit. But is it malicious? Almost certainly not.

The other thing, which in my experience is relatively common worldwide, is that working class communities are more accepting of male-female dynamics. In academia and in highbrow society the tendency is to basically sanitise every social interaction. When you're in an environment where that isn't happening then you can't suddenly ignore it any more.

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Well there is this though:

> Women in trades have reported encounters with customers who doubted their competence and who refused to deal with them, seeking a man instead.

There is plenty of low key sexism (and racism) like that among white collars too so it is not restricted to trades (as acknowledged by the article's author), but this goes beyond banter like just teasing someone because they have red hair.

I think GP is right though.

Real sexism is way more present among middle-class/white-collar workers (whatever their gender is) than between blue collar workers. You will have poorly worded jokes from your coworkers, but the ass-grab or demeaning remarks will always be from managers (the kind of manager who don't know the trade or inherited the job) or customers.

See, I kind of agree that there are certain types of sexism like assumptions that women won't get their hands dirty or patronising artificial politeness that are purely middle class constructs.

But the idea that only white collar workers are capable of ass-grabs or genuinely derogatory remarks is wild...

He claimed “more prevalent” not “only white collar does x”
He also claimed the ass-grabs and demeaning remarks will "always" be from managers [without trade experience]. Which is wild.
It is only when someone think they have power over someone else that they allow themselves to be inappropriate on the workplace. My mom was a nurse before forming nurses, and lived through that (from doctors especially). Her best friend was a security guard at diverse places, but she started at a mall (where she has "wild" stories as you put it. Confirmed 100% always her manager or customers, once the day manager was put on ice for harassment, his replacement ended the night by touching her butt the day he arrived. Crazy that people do that).

But even closer to me, and more recently: i know a woman who work in a call center, and she explained to me the reason why it's always managers on the workplace: the other don't have the time to play powergames with each other, they have too much work (for her it was a female manager who learned of her homosexuality who started to get touchy).

I stand by that. Obviously it is different in non-work settings, but at work?

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Yeah that's normal, like we short fat guys are never popular with girls. Learnt that from teenages and firmly believe that biologically people look down on each other.
societally. what amounts to attractiveness can vary a lot more than you think throughout cultures and times.

But yes, people have always been in competition biologically to flaunt success and pick the best mating partner. You can do that through putting others down or otherwise controlling a mate. And the dimorphic needs between sexes only intensifies this. I'm no sociologist but I wouldn't be surprised if this is a universal experience.

> But is it malicious? Almost certainly not.

Honestly, it often will be malicious, or will quickly become malicious if you don't take it graciously. And why should you? It's not acceptable to make fun of people for being skinny, ginger, shy, black, white, female, or any other things that the in group considers non-standard for whatever weird reasons.

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It’s strange but it’s a fine line. Being made fun of your physical attributes is pretty par for the course in most male groups and it paradoxically makes the place more comfortable to be in. Women just don’t get how this works. Obviously I’m talking about most places. Sometimes it’s just truly evil bullying because they genuinely hate you.
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Women get how this works just fine. If you think it makes the group more comfortable to be in, you’re simply falling for the yoke of patriarchy.
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This is common in software too. Like, you make fun of a guy for being from Kansas or generally non smart states as banter, and they'll get all riled up about it. Dude, we're just playing around about the L3 cache latency on a 9684X. It's okay if you don't know it. It's not malicious or anything. Just the amount of elitism this and elitism that. It's folks unfamiliar with an environment and the fact that some of the rough and tumble of life is helped by not being so sensitive.

There was a truth to the business about scolds and snowflakes. It's all right to have a bit of fun. No need to lose one's mind over it.

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> “You’re better looking than the guy I talked to before.” Such harassment remains common for tradeswomen

If people think this is harassment, no wonder people experience a lot of harassment.

Unless there was more to it the correct answer is along the lines of "yes thankfully" and then a laugh.

I'd recommend a good look in the mirror when looking for the problem in such situations.

Same goes for the thing about trying to discreetly notifying that someone has dirty hands:

Yes, I don't know what is up with Americans and demanding everyone has clean hands at all times, but as long as that is a thing this probably is meant as a favor. Maybe clumsily, but still.

More generally the saying: "when you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras" comes to mind:

If you expect things to be meant funny or helpful (and give people some slack) maybe life becomes a lot less stressful than if everything has to be seen through a lens of gender dynamics.

And if one is known as a reasonable person, I guess people will also take your side if you have to be loud and clear about something, e.g. if it turns out someone wasn't just clumsily trying to be nice or funny.

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I still get flashes of the traumatic day when I was in the kitchen area at work making myself a cup of tea and one of the female employees came in and said "You are a strong and tall man, can you get that heavy box from the top shelf for me".
I had that happen numerous times in supermarkets.
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Her welds look a little sloppy, with too much material on them, to be honest.
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