Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit
Good, the sooner devs realize they need to do server side properly, the better
It's impossible to prevent cheating from the server-side only. Something like an aimbot can operate purely on information you need to have as a client (to render the other players on the screen), and still be a huge advantage because it can respond faster than any human can.
I think server side statistical analysis can go a long way to detect stuff like that. Obviously its always a cat and mouse game between devs and cheaters, and there are always workarounds, but theres a lot more the devs could be doing without relying on invasive client side detection.
You can tune the aimbot to be as good as the server allows, maybe with a bit of variation to throw it off.

And realistically, some real non-cheating players will by chance just have similar statistics to bots, especially since the bots will start doing their best to mimic real players.

Also many players don't need to cheat all the time; just in that critical moment when it really matters. Didn't Magnus Carlsen say he only needs a single move from a chess computer in the right moment to be virtually guaranteed win? Something like that probably applies to a many people and fields. This is even harder to detect with just statistics.

Also also reminds me of the "you can't respond in less than 100ms, and if start the sprint faster than that after the starting pistol then you're disqualified"-type stuff they have in the Olympics – some people can consistently respond faster and there's a bunch of false positives. Not great.

Is the main problem with cheaters that it's unfair, or that it feels unfair/ruins the experience?

Because if you force all the cheaters to hide well enough to look like "normal" players, no one will know, and the game feel will not be negatively impacted. Outside of the tippy top of competition where money becomes involved, it's kind of irrelevant if the game is technically fair, as long as it feels fair to everyone.

> Also many players don't need to cheat all the time; just in that critical moment when it really matters. Didn't Magnus Carlsen say he only needs a single move from a chess computer in the right moment to be virtually guaranteed win? Something like that probably applies to a many people and fields. This is even harder to detect with just statistics.

The difference is that IRL chess and a typical FPS game have very different availability of datasets. IRL chess has both fewer moves per game, and fewer games played in short succession than typical FPS games. Also, with FPS games there is a single metric to evaluate -- the shot landed or missed -- compared with chess where moves are ranked on a scale.

So I'd argue that it would be much easier to do a statistical model to predict a cheating aimbot than it would a cheating IRL chess player. I don't believe Magnus's proposition holds for prolific online chess players when they do dozens or more blitz/bullet games in a single day.

  Didn't Magnus Carlsen say he only needs a single move from a chess computer in the right moment to be virtually guaranteed win
If we are thinking of the same quote, iirc he said all he needs is a prompt from computer "there is a winning move here"
Yeah, maybe – don't recall the precise quote off-hand. But the gist of it was "I need very little help from a chess computer to have a huge advantage".
> Didn't Magnus Carlsen say he only needs a single move from a chess computer in the right moment to be virtually guaranteed win?

That's because he's an elite chess player. Him cheating once per game could make the difference between being number 1 or number 10 but either way he's up there.

But for you or me, cheating once per game wouldn't make a difference. We'd still be ranked as nobody plebs. To get ranked high enough for people to know our names we would have to cheat dozens of times a game, and experienced players would easily peg us as cheaters.

Try cheating on chess.com, if you cheat enough to make a meaningful difference their servers will automatically nail you with statistics.

I've always wondered about this too. It should be pretty easy to recognize statistical outliers. I'm sure cheaters would start to adapt but that adaptation might start to look more in-line with normal skill levels so at least the game wouldn't be utterly ruined
loading story #42000962
loading story #42001136
loading story #42000951
loading story #42003176
I think the problem is that that kind of work requires a good deal of developer resources for a long time. What company wants to pay upkeep on a shipped product? You could save hundreds of thousands of dollars a year by shipping a rootkit to players and not worrying about server security.
loading story #42000693
loading story #42000335
loading story #42000390
BasicallyHomeless did a recent YouTube video on this.
loading story #42000350
loading story #42000120
loading story #42001271
loading story #42002318
loading story #42000110
loading story #42000482
loading story #41999979
loading story #42004192
loading story #42000031
loading story #41999958