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franciscop | on: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices
I know someone close who grows oranges in Spain. He has to go through hell, had to rework multiple times the fields so that they pass the strict Spanish regulation for organic produce. They get evaluated not only on the final product being pesticide free, but also on the full process being compliant, with heavy fines for non compliance.

This is fine-ish, except that the imported oranges get checked only seldomly (if that) and are given a lot of leeway, making it very hard to compete if you grow them locally. Last couple of years saw some profit for growing them locally, but it's been times where there was literally no profit at all for 5+ years.

Funny story: he requested a permit to build a well, and ofc it takes forever so he just waited. After 4-5 years waiting, having even forgotten about it, someone called him: "we're here to inspect the well". What well? You haven't given me permission yet. "yes, we know, but people build them anyway before getting permission so we thought you'd do the same".

CalRobert | parent | next
I was surprised after moving to Ireland to discover that you can break the law and nothing will happen. I went through hell with planners (idiots who don’t believe in climate change and hate eaves) while people around me put three mobile homes on their land as well as building two permanent homes with no permission (and ripping out ancient hedgerows) and successfully got retention. Why even bother?
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Tade0 | root | parent | next
I jokingly refer to this as the Catholic principle: "sin first - confess and repent later" as it's a common theme in countries that are/were traditionally Catholic, including my own.

It's really just places culturally untouched by Calvinism, Puritanism and the like, all of which put emphasis on order.

The last thing to attempt bringing order to them were various forms of authoritarianism and they didn't last. I think we can agree this is not the right approach.

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CalRobert | root | parent | next
Maybe I'm a Calvinist. I'm definitely happier in the Netherlands. My general experience was that Irish laws existed mostly for show and if you followed them you were a chump. Unless you wanted to smoke a joint now and then, of course.

Ireland supposedly cares about nature too, but you can still buy truckloads of turf off the side of the road in Offaly. Good luck getting those rules enforced.

When we still lived in Dublin I got pretty tired of having to push my baby in her pram in the street because the pavements (sidewalks) were completely covered in cars, even in the city centre trying to get to the YMCA creche.

Our experience wasn't limited to "victimless" crimes though. I think when you're threatening your neighbours and letting dangerous dogs loose on other people's land where there's kids or sheep then authoritarianism is called for.

It really is a place where crime is legal.

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trick-or-treat | root | parent | next
Sure, but you have to move to Ireland. That's a deal-breaker for most folks.
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jenadine | parent | next
> strict Spanish regulation for organic produce.

Organic labels are a different thing than official regulation though. IMHO organic labels optimize for the wrong things.

tfourb | root | parent | next
There is an official eu organic label. It’s not compulsory of course, but it’s the baseline for organic food production in and for Europe. Other (private) labels have stricter rules and are usually certified in addition to the EU label.
franciscop | root | parent
No, this is definitely an official gvmt body that can fine you if you try to sell fruit as organic that doesn't follow the regulations. It IS definitely compulsory if you mark your produce as organic.
lukan | root | parent
"IMHO organic labels optimize for the wrong things."

What do you mean?

I only know of "Demeter", that also has some very esoteric requirements (homeopathy, cosmic energy flow rituals) - but otherwise organic label optimize for:

- no or little pesticides and herbicides

- more space and better condition for the animals

My only other grievance is that they also all ban GMO

jenadine | root | parent | next
They optimise for natural. So you can still have pesticides and herbicides. If you find your poison in some plant, it is fine. If you synthetize the same molecule in a factory, then it's not allowed.

As for the animal welfare, true, but there are also labels specifically for that that.

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jimnotgym | parent | next
This is a common complaint in the EU, since enforcement is by ones own government, everyone believes that they are the only ones being held to account. It may or may not be true in general, but it sure gives that impression
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throwaway2037 | parent | next

    > but it's been times where there was literally no profit at all for 5+ years.
Why are they still farming? It sounds like an awful crop.
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retired | parent | next
Meanwhile nobody bats an eye in Spain if you hire illegal African immigrants, pay them far below minimum wage and house them in shacks without electricity and running water. Places like Almería look like slave towns.
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verisimi | parent | next
Organic food can use organic pesticides.
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